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SPS bleaching

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by blackx-runner, Mar 5, 2011.

  1. blackx-runner

    blackx-runner Administrator Website Team Leadership Team

    Having some recent issues with my SPS bleaching and polyps not extending like they used to. The tissue is still there, but its losing all color.  The bleaching appears to be mostly at the base near the plugs. And the polyps just aren't extending much at all.
    This started happening after algae started getting pretty crazy in the tank. - Not sure on the type of algae. Its brown and blows off the rocks and walls very easily. I started running a filter with phos-zorb and carbon and it seemed to slow the algae for a bit, but now it seems to be growing pretty quick again. I didn't notice any SPS issues when the algae was rampant, but after adding the filter I noticed the polyps not extending as much and more recently the bleaching. I am sure there is some correlation, just not sure what it is. Too much of a change in water quality at once??? Or something else?
    Checked water params today
    Ammonia, nitrate, nitrite all 0
    PH 7.8-8.0. Always been this low since I set up the tank, but its stable
    Calc ~480
    Phosphate- some... who the hell can tell the color change on an API test kit. /DesktopModules/ActiveForums/themes/_default/emoticons/ermm.gif
    DKH ~ 7-8
    Any ideas what to
    oops forgot SG is 1.023. It was a about 1.021, but I am slowly bringing that back up with my top offs.
     
  2. Andy The Reef Guy

    Andy The Reef Guy Inactive User

    What are is your PO4 at? Ur dKh is on the low end of okay, I would shoot for a solid 8-10dKh.

    Sounds like dinoflagellates, they are prevalent at lower alk. Also bosting pH will help combat dino's. and if that is in fact what it is, stop doing water changes, replace small amts of carbon every couple of days and do a few 24-48hr blackouts.
     
  3. blackx-runner

    blackx-runner Administrator Website Team Leadership Team

    Isnt po4 phosphate? Whats the best way to raise ph and dkh?
     
  4. Andy The Reef Guy

    Andy The Reef Guy Inactive User

    I would use Seachem reef buffer http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/ReefBuffer.html

    Yeah PO4 is phosphate, and a crucial parameter for sps maintenance. I assume you're using some type of GFO or probiotic/carbon system aren't you?
     
  5. blackx-runner

    blackx-runner Administrator Website Team Leadership Team

    Yeah I tested phospate but I cant tell what color matches
    .. It was light so I would say 0-.5. And I am running phos-zorb for the last couple weeks
     
  6. Andy The Reef Guy

    Andy The Reef Guy Inactive User

    The level of specificity on an API test kit is not precise enough to be diagnostically valuable. The critical range for an sps tank is between 0.04ppm and 0.06ppm. Although, you can get by without ever measuring your PO4 if you have proper filtration in place.
    Phos-zorb is alluminum silicate media, if you read the instructions carefully, you'll see that it indicates that it rapidly removes phosphate and become fully saturated after 2 days, after that point, it will begin leaching phosphate back out into the system. With the avaialbility of gfo (grandular ferric oxide) there's no reason to use alluminum silicate media. Gram for gram, and dollar for dollar gfo binds more phosphate and retains it (practially) indefinately.
     
  7. blackx-runner

    blackx-runner Administrator Website Team Leadership Team

    I am sure I am well above the .04-.06. I don't have a lot of SPS just 4 pieces actually. A couple pieces I got with an aquarium I bought back when I started mine last Spring. Those were doing great until a few weeks ago. And 2 more pieces I got a few weeks ago as part of a package deal.
    Whats the best way to run GFO without a sump and no room for a reactor? This tank will most likely only be up for a few more months, so I don't want something too expensive, but I want my corals healthy. The next tank will have a sump and I'll run GFO and GAC in a reactor.
     
  8. Bud

    Bud Loves Bacon Website Team Board of Directors Leadership Team GIRS Member Vendor

    You know what's really odd? The SPS in the tank I maintain started to do the exact same thing 2 weeks ago. The ORA Green Birdsnest has not been fully extended in 2 weeks, Acan is starting to come back out, 2 frogspawns are completely clenched, branching hammer is clenched...I blame it on solar activity.
     
  9. blackx-runner

    blackx-runner Administrator Website Team Leadership Team

    All my LPS are doing just fine. Fully extended and colors look great.
     
  10. Andy The Reef Guy

    Andy The Reef Guy Inactive User



    ..... sounds spurrious to me lol!
    blaxxrunner- have you considered the possibility of AEFW or any other type of disease pathogen? There's really too many variables to consider in this hobby.
    I would start by putting small amounts of GFO in with your GAC. Since you will likely replace the GAC every 2-3 weeks (or should be), just use a couple of tablespoons of GFO with it.
    Most GFO rxrs can hang on the back of a tank too. GFO is a great place to start with your trouble shooting, and it sounds like it's likely the issue.
     
  11. blackx-runner

    blackx-runner Administrator Website Team Leadership Team

    No idea what AEFW is. Still a noob to the hobby, thats why I came here and posted. To get advice from the pros /DesktopModules/ActiveForums/themes/_default/emoticons/biggrin.gif. I'm open to any ideas and trying any solution.
     
  12. Andy The Reef Guy

    Andy The Reef Guy Inactive User

    Thas kewl! GFO is a great place to start with your situation, and phosphate, in my estimation, is likely the culprit.

    AEFW= acropora eating flatworms, they're the bain of SPS keepers trade.

    learn more here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrOjKpSZ8PI

    lol Sorry I don't have more useful link, but that one is funny!
     
  13. Big John

    Big John Inactive User

    Could lighting be an issue, bulb old etc...?
     
  14. blackx-runner

    blackx-runner Administrator Website Team Leadership Team

    I don.t think so. Bulbs arent that old. Less than 6 months. Fixture is a 48" 4 bulb t5 over 40 gal.
     
  15. Sponge

    Sponge Expert Reefkeeper Vendor

    I also suspect that you have nitrates even though your test doesn't register it.  It's common to not have nitrates show up on testing in a system when algae is present as that's what fuels algae growth...  Your lighting may also be getting at the low end.  I suspect you have diatoms as they are commonly found on the sand, rocks and aquarium walls....  Good luck[​IMG]
     
  16. Bud

    Bud Loves Bacon Website Team Board of Directors Leadership Team GIRS Member Vendor

    You might also consider water quality. I stopped in at Seascapes yesterday and talked to Tim for quite a while. Apparently the spring runoff has an effect on the water to the point where stuff gets through even RO/DI. Even though the meter tests 0 ppm TDS. I think that's what zapped my tank. So if you're using RO/DI, check your TDS. If you're using tap water - don't. Tim said they did a big PWC on the 600 tank 3 weeks ago knowing that they wouldn't be able to do one for months. He also said that the lost most of that tank one year because of a water quality issue (too many heavy metals). If you remember also they lost all their discus in that 144 half-round one year because of the same timing issue.
     
  17. Eric

    Eric Experienced Reefkeeper

    So what's been happening with the bleaching?
    What type of phosphate remover are you using and what do the directions indicate for amounts?
    Reason I ask is that often phosphate remover will indicate that @ higher dosage sps bleaching may occur.  You stated that the specimens were doing fine and the issue started after you took measures to correct the algae issue.
    Your description of the algae also sounds like the bacterial bloom from vodka dosing (which can also burn sps, though typically @ the tips) although you didn't indicate that you were dosing.
    Test kits for phosphates are typically a waste of money - if you have algae, then you most likely have phosphates (or a decaying critter) fueling the outbreak.  The kits read zero as the algae is using the phosphate for fuel. I don't believe we have a lab standard kit in the club.
    -Eric
     
  18. Andy The Reef Guy

    Andy The Reef Guy Inactive User

    I wonder if a higher dosage of phos remover only causes bleaching because of the rapid change in PO4 level, I have read that this too can be stressful.
    I thought about vodka dosing as a culprit too, although blxrnr never indicated that was the case. But certainly sudden outbreaks of dinoflagellates and cyano are a hallmark of organic carbon dosing.
    While I agree that measurable phosphate is often bound in the biomass of algae, I think regular monitoring of PO4 and NO3 are just as important as dKh and pH monitoring. Lamotte phosphate kits are considered laboratory grade.
    An interesting thing that can occur with phosphate, is when kalkwasser is batch dosed, that is, poured in in large volumes once or twice a day. It's well known that kalkwasser decreases the solubility of phosphate and causes it fall out as sediment. Unfortunately these phosphates can and often do redissolve (although some new research has shown that increased skimmate alk is associated with po4). This condition is compounded when people batch dose kalkwasser, the po4 becomes concentrated in the sand bed, and before it redissolves it's attacked by algae, often bryopsis and other hair algaes, I'm unfamiliar with the nutritional needs of cyano and dinoflagellates, although I want to say that PO4 contributes.
    Certainly a succession of algal communities can thrive because of the concentration of a single nutrient. For example, diatoms aggressively divide with a steady supply of po4 and silicate, when they exhaust their supply, they die and their decay provides NO3 and CO2 for cyano to move in, finally an area devoid of NO3 and other residence may be home to dinoflagellates, or ciliates.
    When people have long term success that is suddenly foiled for no clear reason, the solution is usually elementary. There are probably a dozen other scenarios that have to be well adjusted in our maintenance regimes, that we otherwise take for granted.
     
  19. blackx-runner

    blackx-runner Administrator Website Team Leadership Team

    The bleaching hasn't really seemed to slow. All but the tips of the 2 SPS pieces are now bleached white. The polyp extension seems like it may be getting a little better though.
    I started with Phos-zorb came in 5.25 oz bags and stated it treated up to 50 gallons. I have now switched to BRS GFO pellets. I went by their calc and I think it was 8 or 9 tbsp. in a media bag in my filter. I also bought BRS ROX 0.8 carbon and am running that. I think the calc said 3-4 tbsp.
    I have never dosed anything until after I started this thread. It was suggested I try to raise my alk so I started dosing Kent Pro Buffer DKH
    I have read that tests for phosphate were pretty much a waste. I am assuming I have excess phosphates since I have never done anything but PWC to eliminate phosphates until recently.
     

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