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Nitrate issues

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by jstngates, Mar 19, 2012.

  1. jstngates Experienced Reefkeeper

    Toledo Iowa
    Ratings:
    +40 / 1 / -0
    I have had my 90 for 3 and a half years set up.  4 months ago I put a 20 gallon sump with bio balls and filter pads in.  Within the last month my nitrates are going off the wall.  I have done big water changes they go down and in a couple days right back up!  Let me state no fish have dies and I have lost only one coral.  Nothing dead in the tank.  My conclussion last night was to unhook the sump.  Could all the nitrates be from the sump??  My skimmer is a octopus on the back of my tank rated for 180 gallons.  Skims great and still doing the job.  The sump does have chaeto and debris i cant get to in chambers.  I have 250 lbs plus live rock in the tank.  In my 3 and half years never have I had nitrate issues.  Any help would be appreciated thanks.
     
  2. Brandon9400

    Brandon9400

    233
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0
    It sounds like most of your issues are coming from the bio balls they tend to be nitrate factories.
     
  3. Reeferforlyfe

    Reeferforlyfe Inactive User

    655
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    Bio balls are a joke, I was told to stay away from em!
    Did I read this right? You have 250 lbs or LR in your 90 gallon? Wowzers, can the fish even swim? lol
     
  4. jstngates Experienced Reefkeeper

    Toledo Iowa
    Ratings:
    +40 / 1 / -0
    yeah they can swim. so do i keep the sump? or just take out bio balls? i thought bio balls are good.
     
  5. PotRoast

    PotRoast Well-Known ReefKeeper

    999
    Ratings:
    +24 / 0 / -0
    My guess is the bio balls and filter pads are your problem. I don't know anyone that uses either one of those for saltwater.
     
  6. jstngates Experienced Reefkeeper

    Toledo Iowa
    Ratings:
    +40 / 1 / -0
    ah crap thanks. it worked fine for 4 months now to ****.
     
  7. PotRoast

    PotRoast Well-Known ReefKeeper

    999
    Ratings:
    +24 / 0 / -0
    I would disconnect your sump, drain and clean the whole thing, ditch the balls and pads, then set it back up with new salt water in it. You could also use some of your DT rocks and put them in the sump if you want to thin out your rock pile.



     
  8. jstngates Experienced Reefkeeper

    Toledo Iowa
    Ratings:
    +40 / 1 / -0
    so run no pads at all? i have so many co pods in the sump.
     
  9. PotRoast

    PotRoast Well-Known ReefKeeper

    999
    Ratings:
    +24 / 0 / -0
    Honestly, I don't even know what pads you are talking about....I just know filter pads in general tend to soak up the crap in your tank.

    Filter socks, on the other hand, I run those. They work great but you have to switch them out every few days or they too become nitrate factories.

    As for pods, with all your live rock you most certainly have infinitly more pods in your DT rockwork than your 20 gallon sump. I wouldn't worry about it.

     
  10. jstngates Experienced Reefkeeper

    Toledo Iowa
    Ratings:
    +40 / 1 / -0
    ok will take everything out thanks
     
  11. Reeferforlyfe

    Reeferforlyfe Inactive User

    655
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    GL mang
     
  12. Bud Loves Bacon Website Team Board of Directors Leadership Team GIRS Member Vendor

    West Des Moines, IA
    Ratings:
    +1,823 / 14 / -0
    If done correctly, I think bio-balls can be OK, the key is to not let waste get trapped in them. This means you want the bio-balls out of the water and have the water trickling over them. Don't let them become submerged, IMO, at all. Also you would need a pre-filter such as a pad that is changed regularly, which would prevent particles from getting trapped like this
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    I am of the opinion that something else may be going on that is causing this rise in nitrates. It just seems odd that your nitrates could rise so quickly after adding them, because they should ideally just add extra space to harbor the beneficial bacteria.
     
  13. Bud Loves Bacon Website Team Board of Directors Leadership Team GIRS Member Vendor

    West Des Moines, IA
    Ratings:
    +1,823 / 14 / -0
    This is what the above system looked like after I cleaned it

    [​IMG]

    And since totally removing the bio-balls, it hasn't made a difference at all as far as skyrocketing nitrate values go. It's tied to too much feeding and the owner not wanting me to do PWCs. But that's OK now I have a GHA ridden tank ready to test a scrubber on /DesktopModules/ActiveForums/themes/_default//emoticons/smile.gif
     
  14. jstngates Experienced Reefkeeper

    Toledo Iowa
    Ratings:
    +40 / 1 / -0
    my bio balls are out of the water. I live in the country and we have japanese beetles that are showing up in my sump that may be what it is. But I have noticed where the overflow tube comes down and connects to the sump in that chamber there is alot of waste like in the above 2nd picture.
     
  15. Bud Loves Bacon Website Team Board of Directors Leadership Team GIRS Member Vendor

    West Des Moines, IA
    Ratings:
    +1,823 / 14 / -0
    That's "detritus" and you really shouldn't allow it to build up. If you have a sump chamber where the water dumps in, then it overflows into the bio-ball chamber, I'm guessing it's this intake chamber that you can't 'get to' and such is the method of construction with many stock-type acrylic sumps like aqueon proflex or marineland, etc. I just keep enough flow in mine to blow it right back into the DT and like nature deal with it, which it does a pretty good job of.
     
  16. jstngates Experienced Reefkeeper

    Toledo Iowa
    Ratings:
    +40 / 1 / -0
    yea thats what i have.
     
  17. Bud Loves Bacon Website Team Board of Directors Leadership Team GIRS Member Vendor

    West Des Moines, IA
    Ratings:
    +1,823 / 14 / -0
    Well I think you have plenty of LR in the DT so I wouldn't think that you would have benefited much from the BB to begin with. I would just pull them out and use a siphon hose to suck out the waste. Got a pic of the setup?
     
  18. phishcrazee Experienced Reefkeeper

    Riverside
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    They do make bioballs with all kinds of things inside the ball that act as well or some say better than actual live rock because its more porous. If you have lots of flow pointed at the bioballs occasionally so debris is not building up on/in them, they can work fine.   Some people place them in a mesh bag so they can be rinsed off occasionally.  Basically anything that can collect a bunch of debris/gunk can become a "nitrate factory", filter socks, poorly circulated sump etc. Might want to try kicking up the flow around the bioballs first, add a filter sock or 2 etc before you scrap it all /DesktopModules/ActiveForums/themes/_default//emoticons/smile.gif
     
  19. jstngates Experienced Reefkeeper

    Toledo Iowa
    Ratings:
    +40 / 1 / -0
    Right now the sump is unhooked. I did a 70 percent water change on my tank then on my sump. I also cleaned out my sump and the took bio balls out. After I filled checked the nitrates and they were at 40.... after a 70 percent change. Can the nitrates go away on there own now I cleaned everything?
     
  20. Tholton33

    Tholton33 Well-Known ReefKeeper

    537
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    Thats a big water change!
    here is the main points from a "lower your nitrates" write up by Melev

    If your tank is suffering from high nitrate levels, the success of your reef will depend on your being able to get this under control. Changing 100% of the water would be the ideal, but it may shock your corals, fish and invertebrates in the process. A more gradual way is recommended.

    Example from my 55-gallon Reef : Make up 20 gallons of fresh saltwater in a trashcan in front of your tank. Drain 10 gallons of tank water into the 20 gallons of new water, and let that mix. Pump 10 gallons of that water back into your tank, and let the power heads mix that water up in your tank for a minute or so. Then repeat this three more times. Dispose of the now polluted 20 gallons of water. Make up another 20 gallons of fresh saltwater, and repeat this procedure. As long as your temperature and salinity match the tank, your inhabitants won’t be affected adversely, and with each rotation of water, the nitrates are being diluted and removed from your tank.

    Simply pulling out all of the water in one massive water change puts stress on your entire tank. Doing small water changes consistently won’t bring nitrate levels down. At best, it will maintain them at their current levels. Using the example above, a tank that was at 80ppm would be around 30ppm after a couple of hours work and your population will be happy and unaffected. Once your nitrate levels drop, they are easily kept low with regular water changes, as well as the use of a DSB and macro algae.
     

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