MACNA 2011

I think you covered it pretty well xroads. Iam not sure how many of you browse other clubs forums, but this one is by far the most organized, active, and helpful i have come across. And as it turns out the clubs reputation seems to be gaining a great deal of respect. LA sponsering fall fest? Thats huge. And now you got MACNA in 2011. I do not think any run of the mill reef club would be able to achieve these things, and speaks volumes for the club and its events.

 

Posted By mthomp on 05/25/2010 11:04 AM
I think you covered it pretty well xroads. Iam not sure how many of you browse other clubs forums, but this one is by far the most organized, active, and helpful i have come across. And as it turns out the clubs reputation seems to be gaining a great deal of respect. LA sponsering fall fest? Thats huge. And now you got MACNA in 2011. I do not think any run of the mill reef club would be able to achieve these things, and speaks volumes for the club and its events.
Thanks,
Now we just need to get the QC area humming like it was 3 years ago.

 

That's pretty much how I'd define it as well.

"Fest" type events are a lot more work, but there success is more within the control of the BOD. If the board, puts in the work and gets the word out properly, people will show up for and enjoy those types of events.

Reginonal events are a lot more tricky because they depend on people (club members or not) to come out of their collective shells and show up. I know of several times when a board member has put a ton of work into a regional event only to have nobody show up. This has happened in all of the regions. The good news (I guess) is that this isn't something unique to GIRS. If you look at the EIAA, the turnout for their monthly meetings is small (but consistent) where as the turnout for their swaps and shows is tremendous.

Personally, I'd love to see the regional side of the club grow and be as successful as the "fest" side has, but I believe that it's up to the members themselves to make that happen.

-JB

 

yeah I wish there was something i could do to help that happen. I have pondered many things like getting my hands on flyers and putting them up in some of the LFS  like petco and such just to perhaps make more people aware of the club.

 

I think there are quite a few of our members in the QC. We just need to get them to get together on a consitent basis & get to know each other.

 

+1 to all.  Couldn't have said it better.
--AJ

 

I agree with Craig and JB. I will add that this is all logical. All of our lives are very busy. This is a hobby and whats gets us out is the opportunity to see things that excite us involving our beloved hobby: Expert Speakers and the opportunity to buy those beautiful corals we haven't previously been able to afford. Then the icing on the cake is to have the time to talk to other members we only talk to online. Its nice to put a face with the screen name.
The fact is I don't think most of us have the time to see family and close friends like we would like, so to really make the time to come to social events a lot of time just doesn't make the cut. I think this is a reality we have to face and is exactly what I tried to combat as Des Moines trustee last year. You have to have events that excite people to come out. Another chance for beers at the local tavern didn't do very well. But a meeting on basic and advanced Skimmers did very well as did some other hot topics. I figured fish food would do well and people did get excited, but when it came to actually showing up $30 of fish food for $10 didn't get people out. Heck I didn't even make the last one myself.
Events like the Fests and MACNA get people very excited. IMO these events (and a great website) are the heart of our recent successes. MACNA 2011 is just going to add steroids to this mix.
Just my 2 cents.

 

I would agree many things make an event sucessful, some are visible like turnout, vendors, facility, etc... others are harder to see but help the hobby/hobbiest. Sometimes just having a good ol round table discussion on certain topics help hobbiests understand why things work, how to make something better, respect where things come from etc. At times I feel we are focused on how big of an event we can have and not so much on who left the event with a deeper understanding of reefkeeping and having their tank benefit from that. Frags are a crucial part of this hobby but also can create problems... Retail stores suffer, greed sets in, people care more about fragging than having a healthy reef, etc.
I really think having 1 big event a year is the best, if we focused on it with the energy used on 2 it could be everything we want. There are so many events around the US and some have become a tradition of sorts. Hobbiests/Vendors know that this event will be held in this area around this time. Another problem with 2 would be raffle items, while they have been good as of now I can't see vendors continually donating products to us twice a year, they have clubs constantly asking for donations and only so many can be given. Why not pool all of the donations to a single event?
While SF was good I noticed a few things. The audience for the speakers was not overwhelming, I'm not sure if it was because people aren't as interested in learning when coral can be bought or if it was the topics, time, etc. The average hobbiest/seller was minimal in turnout, I'm not sure if that was their choice or if it was due to the vendors coming. With that said though I believe that at some events some sellers should pay a bit more to sell.. Some sellers are making a good chunk of change off of the clubs ability to host an event. I think $20-$30 is practicallly nothing for someone selling a few grand in coral. Would some sort of tier charge keep things fair? Some are just looking to thin out their tank from growth and aren't always looking to make a huge profit, others who would still be considered hobbiest level might have more of a frag setup and are looking to sell more. I think keeping it low for every "hobbiest" allows others to pay minimally and unload a fair amount of coral. This tier would also help the vendors who have some "overhead" with operating, they wouldn't be competing with above average "hobbiests" who are only paying a fraction of what they are. Again frags are crucial but can hurt at all levels of business.
As a replacement to a Spring Frag event I would like to see some sort of speaker or topic of discussion.. even if it's a state of the club address and maybe a "spring cleaning" event where members can unload extra equipment. This event would focus more on members socializing and the club BOD interacting with members. Anymore so much of our club is online I think it would be good to have something like this, we can introduce new memberships if they are present they can introduce themselves so they feel welcomed. Again if it was something annual I feel it would get a better turnout as it's something we can look forward to.
I know sometimes it's costly to bring in a speaker but there are so many lower profile "gems" out there for speakers. Some are hobbiest level but are very specialized in a topic, others are dedicated to their field. Again I think we should attempt to learn as much as we can about our hobby...we are keeping animals and should strive to keep them healthy, not just buy a frag and if it dies o'well i'll get another, should I cycle with an animal..etc
Again with our attempts at creating deals and corals for hobbiests we also have created a situation where it seems fewer are interested if they don't get something cool. It's harder than ever to be a retail store with all of the frag tanks in basements or even in the display, it's also harder than ever to compete with online mega stores that have almost anything you want...even if they dropship the item. While I'm all for deals we also need to remember that it's the LFS that usually opens the eyes of a future hobbiest. Without them we won't have the ability to walk in and pick out a piece of livestock, get certain products, or even just get the typical LFS smell. I've noticed all the "Group Buys" that we have anymore.. while they are great at times and allow members to pool together it seems like we forget about the LFS. I know Joel had something setup with a store in his area on salt. That's a great way to do it.
If we don't watch our ways a bit we will have no LFS... some will quit because they couldn't keep that Ultra LE Watermellon Grapefruit Acro alive or colored up because they didn't learn how, and we won't know what anyone looks like short of a screen name or Avatar.
I don't know what the answers are for everything, I guess I'm rambling but it's stuff I've sat on for awhile and I guess it's time to get some out.

 

Thanks Ryan,

Coming from one of our founding members I take your opinons to heart.

I was troubled more people didnt come over & listen to the speakers as well. But that is nothing new, I have seen it at every one of our shows. I always read feedback from members who loved the speakers, so I know those that listen to them get alot out of it.

I think one reason we went to two events a year is to cater to more of our members. I know alot of regular members could not make it to SF this year. It is also a long drive for our QC members. There will be some members that go to only the DM event, some that will only go to the CR event, and others that will go to an event no matter where we have it.

The vast majority of our speakers actually charge little or nothing to come speak. It is the flights, hotels, and meals that add up. I tired to get a few of our midwest speakers but none were available for this year.

 

Just out of curiosity, I know it's completely off topic, but I think I saw someone mention tiers for pricing? maybe not...
But I had never been to something like spring fest, are all 'conferences/shows' where people sell frags, that freakin pricey? lol
I couldn't believe the price of some of the super small frags some people had.
I mean, I understand supply and demand, but personally I wouldn't pay more than 30$ for ANY frag, just for the simple fact that it's not a guarantee that it's going to survive in my tank, let alone the trip, let alone I got pests with one of the pieces I got...
Too much chance for such a little thing.
But I suppose that it probably comes down to trying to explain to a woman why a diamond ring is worthless... lol
maybe it's preaching to the choir, but perhaps getting more business/people to turn out, would require regulation on pricing? So EVERYONE knows what they're walking into and would be more likely to show up, even if they only had 50$ to spend? /shrug
I found prices there to be minimally different from online prices, and the sizes of frags there seemed to be even smaller than online... maybe I don't have enough exposure to the hobby tho..

 

We will argue about LFS's.

I think they do more harm to themselves then we do.

Example is stores selling B&W clowns for $200, or a stalk of zenia for $50.

We tried to support our Wloo fish store when the new owner took over. 10 of us volunteered to come in on weekends and help clean, paint & organize. They wouldnt even take our free help. One day last Christmas I stopped in to buy a yellow tang that was floating in a bag. After walking around the store for 15 minutes without finding anyone to help me I left without it. Or sending someone home with a new 20 gallon tank in one hand, and a bag with 2 clowns in it in the other hand.

I know on the flip side we have some really good stores in our region, and I try to support them when I visit that town. That being said, most of them dont carry many of the fish I want.

 

the problem with many , not all LFS is they do not share the same passion as we do as hobbiest. they want to move product regardless of what the buyer has for knowledge or equipment. i will use Kylees bad day at work for example. while she tried to educate a buyer and persuade them to not make the purchase, the bottom line was what it all boiled down too for the store. The other problem is often times the hired help at some of these places have little knowledge outside of that beta bowl they had as a kid.  want to add that iam fortuneate enough to have a top of the line lfs with employees that go above and beyond.

 

Ryan,

Well put. I agree with most of what you said, but unfortunately, I don't have all of the answers either. It's a difficult problem to solve.

Regarding LFS's, I'm a bit torn on that issue. I totally agree that it's good to support the LFS's (and I try whenever possible) but I don't agree that the club is much (if at all) to blame for their troubles... The main reason that I buy something online rather the from an LFS usually has a lot less to do with price than it does availablility. IMO, the biggest problem for most LFS's is that they simply don't stock the things that most experienced reefers want. Most of the time, my desire to have something quickly will win over my desire to have it cheaply and the LFS's aren't very good at tapping into this. The only exception that I know of in Iowa is Aquatic Environments. They seem to stock a good amount of supplies and equipment that go beyond the needs of the beginner. Unfortunately, AE is not close to me, so the only two things I can buy from an LFS that I actually need are fish and food which I do almost always buy locally.

Price does play a role as well. I'm not going to be willing to pay $60 for a bucket of salt locally when I can get it online for half that. If I did, I wouldn't be able to afford to stay in the hobby long. On the flip side of that, I'd be more than willing (and would even prefer to) buy locally even if I have to pay a reasonable markup.... The key word there is reasonable.

Corals are another tough thing for the LFS's. I believe that if a LFS put together a decent frag tank and had healthy, desireable and readily available frags for somewhat reasonable prices, they would do well. I know that I would buy from them. However, I don't think many expereinced reefers are going to pay upwards of $50 for a brown coral that some consider a weed. Unfortunately, this is the more common scenario we see.

IMO the club is serving to keep people in the hobby. Those people that seek out help, are going to find it readily available here. If they get the help they need, they are going to stay in the hobby longer and ultimately buy more stuff from their LFS over the long haul.

The real threat to the LFS's out there is the internet itself and reefer's increasing ability to get the products they need, quickly and at a reasonable price. That reality is not going to go away LFS's and they are going to have to find a way to adapt to it or I don't see any way they will survive long term (with or without the club in the mix). I firmly believe that LFS owners can tap into the club and turn it into a great resource if they wanted to, but instead most choose to look at us as the enemy when we're really not.

Again, I don't have all the answers myself, just participating in an interesting debate...

-JB

 

It's all in what you're looking for.  Many of the corals that were selling at our show for $25, regularly go in shops for $50 online and even $80 at some LFS.  The fact is, a coral is worth to you, what you're willing to pay for it.  If the frag looks small for the price, don't buy it.  That same frag may be worth twice the asking price to the person behind you.  As a general rule, I've found the shows as being a great place to get a lot of inexpensive corals in comparison to other means.  I saw a wide variety of corals at the show and they were priced to people in all budget categories.
--AJ

 

I agree AJ, The four corals I bought were at great prices. Even though some of the corals may look small, human nature is to want what someone else doesn't have (in your club anyway) that is an advantage of the fests and out of state vendors. They brought things we don't have here in Iowa, at least that is what i was looking for. And yes, they were expensive, but I am happy. ;0) Supply and demand must rule, price controls just aren't American.

 

Ryan,
I hear where you are coming from. I guess I thought the turnout for both Fall and Spring speakers were pretty good. When I looked over there on the 15th it looked pretty full to me and the Aisles were pretty empty. Maybe this is just perception I don't know. I miss things like this sometime. I know the feedback on the speakers I heard was great and they wished they had more time to get further into their subjects.
Since I am one of the people pushing hard for two events maybe I should explain why. But I think Craig explained it perfectly, we don't all live on the east side of the state. I really didn't like traveling 2 hours every time there was an event. I heard this over and over in Des Moines, so I will continue to fight for two major events. I really don't see the downsides that you do.
I agree it would be good to have more events for just speakers. BUT, if you thought the turnout for the speakers was low at the Fests imagine what it will be if that is all that is happening. I stick with my "philosophy" of people are busy. The last regional speaking event I went was for Mitch Karl in Des Moines. Great presentation but there was only about 10 people that showed up. I know there was more than 10 that listened to the Fest Speakers. I am sure this makes our Speakers feel like their time was well spent rather than talking to only 10 people.
I do like your idea of trying to add a "round table" or something at the fests. It is something to try but I see space being a problem. Also, it adds more coordination to events that already are a bunch of work, but I for one am willing to try. However, this really should be left to regional events I think. Last year Austin and I organized several of these and about 60-70% were well attended. It really takes dillegent daily work of contacting people and setting up a published agenda to make these work. People need to say to themseleves "I need to learn more about that so I can be as successful as some of these other people". That really takes alot of work to accomplish and bring me back to my premise, people are busy.
LFS's really have to be shown the light. Sorry Tim and Scott if you are reading this. ;0) Someone already mentioned the reality of the internet hurting their business. I keep telling them here, this isn't going away. You have to find a way to compete. AND GIRS can help with this. Don't just stock $30 bottles of B-Ionic, 90% of the experienced reefers won't buy it. Instead call up BRS and sell their stuff at a reasonable markup (taking that word from JB). You may only make $5 but guess what, we need that every month. Now combine that with Salt at a "reasonable" markup and we come in even more. Now give us deals on ordering fish at reasonable markups .... I think you see where this is going. I think this concept will work, maybe I am wrong. But so far it seems to be working for Seascapes better than us being the enemy. Because guess what we are not going away, another reality.
I agree with you that offering cheap frags to anyone that walks into a Fest is not a good practice. But it is a hard one to combat. I, for one, always try to ascertain the buyers skill level before selling them harder to keep frags. But, as Kevin Kohen and John Coppolina said to Craig and I at dinner, we have all killed 10's if not hundreds of animals in personally learning how to keep them alive. We would all like to mislead ourseleves that this isn't true but it is. This in my mind is the number 1 reason for GIRS, educating people how to do this right. Before GIRS it was the LFS's job, but the fact is they don't have the time or availability. With GIRS I think we save many more animals than we would if we didn't do what we do. Additionally people stay in the hobby longer because they can be more successful, this translates to longer term customer for the LFS's as well. Again a win win I think.
I will end my rambling here .....

 

Before I say anything else I want to thank you for trying to make things happen and the time you put in... I don't want you guys to take anything personal.
I'm in agreement with all of you regarding LFS and their need to try and adapt with the changing hobby. I've tried to give advice when I felt it would benefit them, sometimes it's seems like it's on deaf ears and that's all I can do. At that point everything is in their hands. We do have an impact as a club though when you look at the access members have to livestock. This hobby will always be harder for a store than if they were selling something else. It's easy to get coral in but once you make a sale and that person has luck with their new coral, it does something most other products don't...it grows. That growth at times requires a person to cut it to thin it out. At that point you could either throw an animal in the garbage or attempt to trade/sell it. Whoever buys it is now also in posession of the original sold piece. One less guy to walk in and buy that coral offered for sale at the store. Now what happens if that coral becomes a constantly fragged piece due to growth? They keep on fragging and the price usually is lower to make sure it's gone.. This coral is eventually commonplace in the area and aquiring a piece is as easy as hopping on our site and saying WTB. The store now has a few options, sell the coral at "going" price and take a loss due to all the markup in the chain of custody. Purchase the coral from the hobbiest if he/she is willing to accept a cheaper price so the store can pay their bills, try to grow the coral in house and hope it doesn't sit around and take up space. This impact will only get worse as hobbiests continue to have sucess with more types of coral and breeding of fish. This aquaculture is necessary to relive the pressure on wild reefs and I support it. My concern is when we as a club do little to encourage the use of a LFS if one is availbale. An example of this would be when Anthony Calfo was here for the last Fall Fest. He was going to be at a LFS here the night before the event. It seemed to me that there was little press/support of that and more focusing on him being at the event. I could be very wrong but I don't recall much the day of the event giving the LFS props for helping bring Anthony in. Again if I'm wrong please correct me.
My idea of a roundtable was more of a way to bounce ideas off of each other and maybe get some questions hobbiests have answered. It's doesn't need to be anything fancy and might not bring anymore members out than anything else. It's something we could try at a Spring "garage sale" or "state of the club" event to get people thinking about reefs. I remember the spring "club agenda" seemed to have decent turnouts. i remember JB getting an award, maybe something along those lines... photo contest, most active new member, best looking coral..idk We could check into the Reef Ball program and see about helping preserve what has given us so much enjoyment. Heck even talk with the LFS and maybe organize a small grillout to show appreciation and get the clubs name out, nothing fancy just some hotdogs and stuff to help their parking lot traffic. I'm just worried that we have "frag events" on the brain now and are trying to one up the event prior. I don't want us to forget there are more things to this hobby than how cheap or how exotic a coral a person can get. I've said it before, I'd rather see a tank plum full of any type of coral than a tank with LE nubs.
This club is a great asset to everyone who utilizes it, there is always going to be a newb to advanced member and everything in between. For every question asked you will usually get at least twice the amount of differing answers, it's wonderful that there are many ways to keep a sucessful reef. I hope we don't lose sight of this and show grattitude to those who have attempted to make a livelyhood in this hobby. I hope that at the end of the day we log off feeling like we learned something or helped someone to learn.

 

Hey Ryan,
I want to let you know that we value everyone's opinions, but especially those that have been associated with the club long term like yourself.  You've seen where we've come from and where we're headed and have a perspective that some of us lack...so thanks for offering your feedback.
As for the book signing, we tried our best to notify people that Anthony was going to be there.  I personally made special flyers for them to hang up in their store expressly for the book signing - not to advertise Fall Fest, but just the book signing.  I even took them to the store and made sure that they were hung.  We published articles on our home page about it and put it in out forums.  I think we did a pretty darn good job trying to advertise the book signing.  See articles here and here that were posted on our front page promoting the book signing.  Actually, don't bother.  I just clicked the link and the articles don't show anymore since the content is expired....but we had two separate front page postings mentioning the book signing.
As for the round table discussion, were were talking about that over dinner following Spring Fest.  I love the idea and I think it would be an excellent addition to an event.
We've also recently been discussing a photo contest.  We already have the software, it's more a matter of having the time to run it.  If you're willing to step up and administer the photo contest, we would love the assistance.  Now this was being discussed at a time earlier this year, before Spring Fest.  We made the conscientious decision to focus efforts on Spring Fest instead of the photo contest.  Now that Spring Fest is over again, we have a thread in the BOD area right now to discuss goals for the rest of the year and what we need to do.  This will come up in that meeting.  Again, if you're willing to run the photo contests, let me know and I'm sure we can work something out.
Anyway, you have a lot of great ideas.  I would love to take some time and discuss them with you (and anyone else that would like to join) over a cold beverage some evening.  Let me know and we can get something scheduled.
--AJ

 

+100

 

Ryan,
I agree that the coral issues is tricky for LFS's but I think it's another case where it's all in how they approach it.  If someone is successful with their coral (club member or not) they are going to eventually get into a situation where they need to thin things out and selling/giving the coral away the coral is (IMO) a better solution then throwing in the trash to die.   That's a reality that nobody is going to be able to change and it's something that's easy for the LFS to pickup up on and say "look at the club destroying my business".    However, I would argue that is another case where it's all a matter of perspective and how you approach the problem.      A club like ours is made up of a tiny fraction of the people who are in the hobby.  I would guess that less than 10% of the people in Iowa who have reef tanks have ever heard of GIRS or read these forums.   
If I were an LFS owner, I'd be looking at this fact and seeing how I could use the club's success for my own benefit.   For example, instead of buying expensive frags that have to be shipped in from suppliers, why not buy some of these excess frags from successful club members and turn around and sell them to all of those people who don't interact with the club?   As one of the people who has to constantly trim/frag an overgrown tank, I would very much prefer being able to take excess frags to a LFS and saying "sell these for what you want and give me a cut".   Honestly, that would be a lot easier for me then coordinating with people to come over and (maybe) buy out of my frag tank.   I think that (provided the prices stay reasonable) most club members would prefer to buy corals using this method as well.    So again, It's all in how a LFS chooses to look at and address the problem.
In regards to Calfo,  I'm going to say that I disagree with you on that point.   I was involved in the club leadership last year for Fall Fest and I think we did just about all we could to promote Calfo being at Pet's Playhouse.   We had posts in the forums about it, we had it on the front page and we sent out mass emails to all the registered users reminding them about it.   I believe that AJ even took the time to design and print out some really nice flyers which he took over and hung them himself.   During Fall fest, we also had the Pet's Playhouse banner displayed in a very high traffic spot (something he pays the EIAA for a couple times a year without having the benefit of having Calfo appear).   If anything, I was a bit disappointed that more club members didn't come out to show their support for Pet's Playhouse during Calfo's appearance, but I think the board did all it could/should do to promote it.
-JB