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LED Gurus - Dimming a single LED on a string?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Bud, Apr 24, 2012.

  1. Bud Loves Bacon Website Team Board of Directors Leadership Team GIRS Member Vendor

    West Des Moines, IA
    Ratings:
    +1,823 / 14 / -0
    Here's a good one.  I wish to dim a single LED in a string of 7.  Well 2 on a string of 14 actually.  Can this be done?
    Here's what I want to do.  I am running 2 fixtures (for a scrubber) each containing 6 reds and 1 blue, they are all in series on a Meanwell LPC-35-700.  I want to knock the blues down.  I know I can do this by putting the 2 blues in parallel within the series like r-r-...-r-(b+b)-r-r-...-r where the (b+b) is the two blues running in parallel (current divider) but I was thinking of another way.
    My idea would be to (instead of running the blues parallel) put a pot on each blue across the terminals, creating a current divider.  Thus if I turned the pot down to zero resistance, no current would flow through the LED and it would be off.  If I turned it all the way up, no current through the pot, LED on full like the pot wasn't there.  Somewhere in between, the pot would take some of the current and the LED would be effectively dimmed.
    So is this feasible, or is there another factor I am not considering?
     
  2. PotRoast

    PotRoast Well-Known ReefKeeper

    999
    Ratings:
    +24 / 0 / -0
    Been wanting to use this graphic all day.












    [​IMG]
     
  3. Bud Loves Bacon Website Team Board of Directors Leadership Team GIRS Member Vendor

    West Des Moines, IA
    Ratings:
    +1,823 / 14 / -0
    So...what are you sayin?
     
  4. Bud Loves Bacon Website Team Board of Directors Leadership Team GIRS Member Vendor

    West Des Moines, IA
    Ratings:
    +1,823 / 14 / -0
    Ok so I still don't get what you're trying to say with that pic. That I'm a mad scientist?

    So will this work or not?
     
  5. PotRoast

    PotRoast Well-Known ReefKeeper

    999
    Ratings:
    +24 / 0 / -0
    I was actually trying (and failing) to post that in a different thread. Sorry about that.

     
  6. ThyRaven

    ThyRaven Well-Known ReefKeeper

    919
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    +1 / 0 / -0
    I don't think by have the pot in parallel to a strings of LEDs in series you are going to get what you are wanting and if you put the pot in front of the LED then everything behind it would be dimmed.

    I think the only way to make this work would be to have the 2 blue LEDs in parallel to the reds. But let me do some looking around. Might be able to come up with something else.
     
  7. nrenn Well-Known ReefKeeper

    311
    Waverly, Iowa
    Ratings:
    +29 / 0 / -0

    Is this what your thinking of?


     



    [​IMG]

     
  8. nrenn Well-Known ReefKeeper

    311
    Waverly, Iowa
    Ratings:
    +29 / 0 / -0
    Had a thought: LEDS are constant current devices, correct? Using a potentiometer as a voltage divider is also a current divider....may have to think of something else.
     
  9. danmgray Well-Known ReefKeeper

    307
    Sioux City, IA
    Ratings:
    +26 / 0 / -0
    I'm not an electrical engineer or electronic technologist, but I don't see anything wrong with the concept.
    At a quick glance, your driver appears to be constant current within a certain voltage range. If you put a pot in parallel with each of the two blue LED's you should be able to divert some of the current around the LED as you suggest. As that happens, the voltage across the blue LED's/pots will change, which in turn will change the voltage drop over the whole string (in a perfect world, if you have your pot adjusted to zero resistance then the voltage drop across it and the LED would be zero). That should be OK in this case; your driver will compensate for voltage to maintain the constant current.
    It could be a problem if you had a pot around every LED and all the pots were adjusted to zero resistance. In that case it would be the same as shorting out your driver...and I doubt that is a good thing--not sure how many safeguards are built in. If you wanted a pot around every LED, then a person may be able to size a resistor to put in series with each pot to ensure there is a minimum voltage drop across each LED--it could be sufficiently low enough that the LED goes out, but enough that the voltage does not drop below the drivers working range.
    Of course, any resistors or pots should be sized appropriately to handle any possible currents or voltage.
    Good luck! And let us know your results if you try it /DesktopModules/ActiveForums/themes/_default//emoticons/smile.gif
     
  10. ninjazx777 Experienced Reefkeeper

    Des Moines, IA
    Ratings:
    +7 / 1 / -0
    I don't know if it will work but I'm pretty sure though that as you dim the blues you will brighten the reds at the same time cause they will receive the extra current that was going to the blues so you would have to make sure you have enough reds on the string that when you dim the blues you don't overload the reds
     
  11. ninjazx777 Experienced Reefkeeper

    Des Moines, IA
    Ratings:
    +7 / 1 / -0
    Actually the more I think about it neither way will work. if you run them all in series no matter where you put the pot adjusting it would effect the whole string. It also wouldn't work running the reds in series and the blues in parallel to reds cause the trick to running LEDs in parallel strings is that both strings need to be balanced that's why you can't run different led in parallel strings unless you run the same combination on each string so half the reds and one blue on one string and the other reds and blues on the second string which means you couldn't dim just the blues. I think the only way to get this to work would be to run the reds on the constant current driver and the blues on a dimmable driver like the 60-48d but you would have to run least 4 led on this driver or come up with some fancy circuit board that can compensate for the unbalanced string which I have no idea on how to build
     
  12. Bud Loves Bacon Website Team Board of Directors Leadership Team GIRS Member Vendor

    West Des Moines, IA
    Ratings:
    +1,823 / 14 / -0
    nrenn, this is close to what I was hoping to accomplish except the pot would be across a single blue LED. There would be 2 pots since each fixture has 6 reds and 1 blue, and each fixture in in series so it goes r-r-r-b-r-r-r--r-r-r-b-r-r-r.

    As for the concept, as Matt pointed out to me on the phone today LEDs need a certain voltage drop across the junction to turn on. diverting a portion of the current through the pot would still mean there is a voltage drop, but the amount of the drop would be controlled by the pot. If the pot were turned to zero resistance, the drop would be zero and the LED would be like it wasn't there. If the pot were turned to maximum resistance, then a proportion of the current would still flow through the pot, unless the pot had infinite resistance. Somewhere in between the two points, the pot would pull some of the current and since V=IR the voltage drop would still occur. I'm guessing there is a rather small range of adjustment of the pot in order to keep the voltage high enough to turn on the LED and induce operation.

    Being a EE I can see no reason why this would not work, but since I haven't really seen anything on this subject anywhere, I am trying to figure out if there is a particular reason why 1) it hasn't been tried and 2) why it wouldn't work. After all, it's just a current divider, at it's simplest form.
     

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