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Bleaching?

Discussion in 'General (Hobby Related)' started by jtesdall, Nov 26, 2007.

  1. jtesdall

    jtesdall Expert Reefkeeper

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    I talked to Sone a bit last night on chat about this. I was wondering if I am experiencing rtn/stn or bleaching? Sounded like Sone was thinking bleaching but we didn't actually finish our talk before everyone butted in. /site/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/_default/emoticons/shocked.gif jk
    Many SPS and LPS corals look very good like my rose Mille, purple bonsai and yellow mille (among others).  However others are turning white slowly, no tissue falling away just turning white and dyeing. Mostly from the bottom but some from the center. So I am thinking bleaching. This is happening slowly but is noticeable with my purple digitata, powder blue stag and a few other unknown montiporas. But again my red and green cap, purple stag, purple tip mille and others are doing well. I am also noticing this tonight with a coral I got from Ryan at the swap he called "similar to Tyree ultimate" which is a real bummer. But the Subulata I got from him seems to be doing well.
    So anyway I need to double check my params(tomorrow night).  But so far .... 0 Amm - 0 Nitrite - 7 Nitrate - 480 CA - 3.5 ALK (meq/l) - PH 7.9 - 8.1 - temp 77.7 - 79
    So if this is bleaching (any other ideas) what are the main causes I need to look out for? Sone mentioned GFO which I am running. What about too close to the lights? Some of these corals are about 6 inches from 250W 15K XM's. I haven't tested Mg in a while? I dose just Kalk replacing all top off. Oh and salinity @ 1.026.
     
  2. Guest

    Guest Guest

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    If they were too close to the lights, I wouldn't think you'd see things dying from the center or the bottom, you'd see whatever is facing the lighting most directly getting hit the worst. Did you move your lights down recently?
     
  3. jtesdall

    jtesdall Expert Reefkeeper

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    Posted By ryansholl on 11/26/2007 10:02 PM
    If they were too close to the lights, I wouldn't think you'd see things dying from the center or the bottom, you'd see whatever is facing the lighting most directly getting hit the worst. Did you move your lights down recently?
    Yes, I built sliders on the side that make them completely adjustable height wise. I also added a parabolic reflector I got from the "other" Ryan at the swap. I can't remeber his last name and his sign is way too hard to remeber, ryanxxxx. /site/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/_default/emoticons/wink.gif I really like my new lighting setup.  I agree, that if it was lighting it should start at the top.

     
  4. slovan

    slovan Experienced Reefkeeper

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    Hey Joel, could you please post some pictures of the affected corals? Macro shots would be even better.

    Somehow I doubt the lights would be a factor considering the XM 15K bulbs have low output in terms of PAR. Plus purple digitatas love light, they color up like crazy under 400W MH. /site/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/_default/emoticons/smile.gif
     
  5. BGreenlee

    BGreenlee Inactive User GIRS Member

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    Sounds like bleaching to me. In the past I have had it with a few corals and it seemed to be related to a water parameter being out of whack. For me it was alk instability and assosciated ph swings from day to night.
     
  6. jtesdall

    jtesdall Expert Reefkeeper

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    Thanks Guys. Sone, most of these corals are small and my macros don't do so well but I will try later tonight. Billiy, I will double check params again tonight. It could be swings, I don't test alk enough to know for sure, it always seems to be really close to 3.5. As you know I don't know my PH swings much, ground loop don't ya know. I have a pretty graph of the ground loop swings though. /site/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/_default/emoticons/smile.gif
    [​IMG]
    Remember these are bad values from the AC, it just looks pretty.
    I have been trying to stabalize things with the Kalk mixer I built. It tops of Kalk every 4 hours.
     
  7. jtesdall

    jtesdall Expert Reefkeeper

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    This is a good Temp Graph though.
    [​IMG]
     
  8. slovan

    slovan Experienced Reefkeeper

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    I don't think it's a problem with temperature if the delta is only 1.5 degrees.

    Do you have a bad pH probe? If you dosed kalk every 4 hours, you would see peaks and valleys in your graphs. If anything, I would retest your water parameters again and check your equipment to make sure everything is running fine.
     
  9. jtesdall

    jtesdall Expert Reefkeeper

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    My PH Probe in new as of two months ago and calibrated then. I will double check it tonight. I am dosing (replacing evaporation) Kalk every 4 hours to make it gradual, isn't this a good way? Seemed better than doing more once a day. It also seems to me that this way would not cause many peaks and valleys as my system is about 180 gallons and the Kalk should only add a cup or two (very slowly over 30 minutes) every few hours. If this is the wrong way to do it though, I am listening. This way just really made sense to me.
     
  10. slovan

    slovan Experienced Reefkeeper

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    I thought you were getting bad pH readings from the AC?

    If you have about 180 gallons net, I would think your evaporation rate would be at least 2 gallons a day. If you split that up into fours, it's still 1/2 gallon at each interval. With kalk having a pH of 12, you should definitely see some spiking occur when you dose.
     
  11. BGreenlee

    BGreenlee Inactive User GIRS Member

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    Posted By slovan on 11/27/2007 11:15 AM
    I thought you were getting bad pH readings from the AC?
    If you have about 180 gallons net, I would think your evaporation rate would be at least 2 gallons a day. If you split that up into fours, it's still 1/2 gallon at each interval. With kalk having a pH of 12, you should definitely see some spiking occur when you dose.
    Ground loop on the ph probe due to the ACII.
     
  12. jtesdall

    jtesdall Expert Reefkeeper

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    If I unplug the PC cable then my readings are fine. The graph is way off because of this serial problem on the ACII.
    2 gallons spread over 6 periods would be a third of a gallon but point taken. When watching the ACII I don't notice much spike suring addition but I need to check this out better and double check my probe with a kit. Is there a more preferable way to add Kalk to cut down these spikes? I couls increase the number of time per day Kalk is added but my ACII is running out of program lines to use. I will probabally need to get a new powerline interface and control some of these devices (non-PH or temp controlled) from my PC.
    I will be short on time to take these tests tonight but I will try. I certainly appreciate all of the help trying to narrow this down. It would sound like the consensus is water parameters out of line or instable. I will concentrate on determining this.
    Thanks
     
  13. Lee

    Lee Experienced Reefkeeper

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    Have you been feeding the tank well?
     
  14. jtesdall

    jtesdall Expert Reefkeeper

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    Posted By lee on 11/27/2007 9:10 PM
    Have you been feeding the tank well?
    Hi Lee,
    What do you mean? I feed brine, marine cuisine and Mysis everynight. I also put in two caps of marine snow and some black powder every other night.

     
  15. jtesdall

    jtesdall Expert Reefkeeper

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    OK, I did a full run of tests. Here is where I am at:
    NO2 - 0
    NO3 - 3 (Yeah!)
    PO4 - 0
    ALK dKh - 10
    ALK Meq/L - 3.5
    CA - 420
    Mg - 1160
    Sg - 1.025
    PH - 8.03 (Lights on and double checked with test kit)
    Again, the only thing I dose is Kalk as 100% topoff. The only thing I see that is out is Mg and it is a bit low. Maybe too low.
    I will start raising it, I haven't dosed Mg in a long time. I have DIY Mg with Epson and I bought some Mg salts with Waverez at the swap. I will have to research how to mix that and combine with the epsom. Any advice?
    Other than that, any further ideas now on my bleaching. My digitata looks better today. I am also not impressed with the growth of my corals except for red cap.
     
  16. slovan

    slovan Experienced Reefkeeper

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    What kind of salt are you using, Joel?

    Aside from raising magnesium, I would also try lowering your alkalinity a little to see if it will help. I try to keep mine around 8dkh.
     
  17. jtesdall

    jtesdall Expert Reefkeeper

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    Sone, Reef Crystals only. How do you lower alk, I assume I would have to stop Kalk and just use Calcium? Things are still looking better today so I don't want to change things very fast.

    Should I use both the RHF Two-Part Epsom Magnesium and the magnesium (Chloride??) picked up from two-part at the swap? Jeremy, which did we get (Sulfate or Chloride?) ? Sulfate is Epsom right? So I assume we got Chloride, which is Mag flake??
     
  18. slovan

    slovan Experienced Reefkeeper

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    That's what I would do is add calcium only until you can get your alkalinity to drop a little.

    As far as magnesium, you'll have to have one of the two-part experts chime in. I have only used Kent Marine liquid magnesium for adjustments.
     
  19. jtesdall

    jtesdall Expert Reefkeeper

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    Thanks Sone. I think I figured out the Mg mixing from the two part site and randy's instructions. Also I found Jeremy's original post to determine it was actually Mg Chloride we bought. I have added three 1/4 cups tonight using the reef calulators reccomended dosage. I will test tomorrow and add the second dose if needed.
    I may just back off my my kalk for a week or so and see what that does to my alk/Ca levels. Then I can add CA if needed. I am going to wait a few days though to see if the Mg has an effect.
    What do others have for levels when using Kalk for top off? Are mine out of line with what others get?
    Won't be until next weekend probabally because I get to spend the week in Daytona on business!! Suckas ......../site/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/_default/emoticons/hehe.gif
     
  20. slovan

    slovan Experienced Reefkeeper

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    Posted By jtesdall on 11/30/2007 11:32 PM
    I may just back off my my kalk for a week or so and see what that does to my alk/Ca levels. Then I can add CA if needed. I am going to wait a few days though to see if the Mg has an effect.
    What do others have for levels when using Kalk for top off? Are mine out of line with what others get?
    Won't be until next weekend probabally because I get to spend the week in Daytona on business!! Suckas ......../site/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/_default/emoticons/hehe.gif
    Hey Joel, your parameters aren't out of whack to stop dosing kalk for a week.  If anything, stop for a couple days and then retest.
    Going to Daytona?  Go say hi to this guy for me will ya? /site/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/_default/emoticons/tongue.gif
    [​IMG]
     

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