ICH IN MY REEF TANK

I had Ich when I started too. I took peoples advice and just fed the tank very well. All fish got over it within a few weeks. When you say the fish looks bad is it simply covered in spots or is it looking weaker, not eatibg, etc?

 

Hey Donovan

Ich can be very annoying, but it is very beatable.

First get all your fish out & into a QT tank. You may be able to save your current fish. Slowly drop your salinity to 1.09. Keep good areation. The ich parasite will explode at that salinity.

Leave your reef tank going as is with NO TREATMENT of any kind. The only thing you have to do to rid your tank of ich totally is leave it with no fish for 6 weeks. Ich cannot live without a fish. Your shrimp, corals, crabs, and so on cannot keep them alive so do not worry about them.

 

+1  Except Craig mean to say 1.009 instead of 1.09....1.09 would be very bad... ;-)
Hypo-salinity hospital tank for 6 weeks will take care of it.  Even if the fish were to look better after just a week, you should still keep them isolated for the full 6 weeks.  Watch the salinity very closely as ich can survive at 1.011.  If you don't do it for the total 6 weeks, then it will remain alive in your tank and could re-infect the fish again.  Good luck!
--AJ

 

Removing the fish is ideal, but next to impossible in a rocky display tank, not to mention it stresses them out greatly chasing them around the tank with a couple nets........unless they're so listless that you can easily scoop them up; then its likely too late anyways. If you can't catch them, but they're still eating, soak some food in FRESH cut/crushed garlic and some fish oil/omega 3 capsules. Do this several times a day and use new garlic each time. It will cure the ich and keep it at bay. Good luck with your remaining fish, should have posted this sooner!

 

+1 with Craig and AJ
Garlic is pretty effective IME but will not rid the tank of the parasite. which leaves open the possibility of infection at a later date.
One addition, the six weeks is to get through the parasites complete life cycle. Only the final stage is killed with Hypo-salinity. Also, there is disagreement on whether 6 weeks is enough time so I recommend longer unfortunately, 8-9 weeks.
BTW, Donavan's Reef is one of my favorite movies!!

 

Be calm & dont rush things.  Knee jerk reactions is usually what causes whole systems to fail.
Even though many of those additives say reef safe, you are playing with fire any time you use them.
Feed your surviving fish like Fawn said.  Devise a fish trap so you can catch them with the least amount of stress possible.
Then get them into a QT & treat as indicated while letting your tank go fishless.
I would continue with a couple water changes using aged saltwater (dont use freshly mixed).  It might not hurt to run some carbon.
Good luck & keep us posted.
Craig

 

Here's a link to an article on hyposalinity that might be helpful to you.  http://atj.net.au/marineaquaria/hyposalinity.html

 

Trust me even though it says reef safe its not I know first hand I lost 90% of my corals to supposed reef safe ich medicine

 

+1 for feeding with garlic its the best to help with the fish

 

Looks like many have chimed in to help with this situation. However I would still add insights from my philosophy, as developed from many years as an aquarium diagnostitian while working at IC petland, as well as my profesional opinion (being educated in hydrology and biology) concerning disease pathology in the aqueous environment;
The best case scenario is NOT to remove the fish, this added visual stress just reduces their ability to mount an immune response to the parasite, additionally treatment with chemicals can be effective at killing the parasite but often stresses the host as well, especially when done in a quarentine environment, reintroduction to the display tank too soon can leave their immune systems impaired and overall more suceptable to infections. Formaldyhyde and formaldyhyde derivitive treatments are more effective than most chemical based treatments with the added benefit that they not only kill the parasitic larvae, but it is also effective at killing and dislodging the adult, however this is much more effective at higher concentrations, consequently these treatments are especially stressful for the fish, and not at all reef safe. The only way these types of treatment can be considered "reef safe" is at the recomended ultra low concentrations recomended by the manufacturer, which is albeit scarecly effective at treating the parasite. Moreover, high concentrations of formaldyhyde, formalin, and malachite are precipetive, and evaporate quickly from tank water at 78 degrees, making it difficult to prolong treatment at slightly elevated concentrations. The most effective way to use formaldyhyde based treatments is to make a 5 gallon dip solution of seawater at a concentration of 80ppm formaldyhyde/formalin, areate vigorously, (maintain like temperature, pH, and salinity) and treat the fish for 5 minutes before transfering to a sterile quarentine tank for recovery. Ultimately these types of treatments are very stressful and better suited for treating larger specimens with weight and calories to burn.
Of course if you're going to remove the fish hyposalinity is a much more preferred and proven method for treating these fish. It is problematic however, maintaining a quarentine environment for long periods is difficult, there is no nitrifying fauna to aid in ammonia and nitrite reduction, and often time aquarists use small quarentine tanks, compounding these forementioned problems and adding spacial constraints that also stress the fish. Hyposalnic treatment also requires time and isn't a great treatment for dire cases, especially since fish are reluctant to continue feeding after being moved.
At this level of infection complaciancy is not an option either. Typically most fish live with small cultures of many types of parasites and viruses their entire lives, this is especially true in wild populations. When widespread infection ensues in captive systems the natual suspicion of any aquarist should be, "why is this animals immune system supressed?" There typically is a rhudementary problem; is the fish a new member of the community? Are the fish attacking or stressing one another? Did a new fish come from a stressful environment (the fish store)? Is there a problem with poor water quality? (low dKh is a common and widespread problem for many aquarists, especially beginners), etc. Be sure to check your parameters and I often suggest moving to a third option of treatment;
Boost the temp, feed like hell, maintain your water parameters, and treat with UV or Ozone. 9/10 this is the BEST option for treating even, and especially advanced cases of parasitic infection. Worst case scenario you loose all of your fish (which in the case of advanced infection is likely to happen anyways, and especially due to harsh treatment) and the parasite dies off since it has no host to infect. Again, in the case of severe infections with fish weighing more than 100-150 grams, (excluding tangs due to their sensitive nature) it often works well to throw caution to the wind and treat with formaldyhyde. In this treatment regime, again, feeding may very well be the root of the problem, if your fish are immuno compromised due to poor nutrition.
Feeding is the key to treatment when fish are being taxed by parasitic hosts, and cessation of a feeding response is paramount to death for any animals this size regardless of their parasitic condition. Food and food enrichment, and antibiotic administration via food is a another part of this third treatment option. Seachem offers products like Metroniazol and Focus which is my #1 choice for treating acute to advanced parasitic infections. Metroniazol is indicated as a topical/medical anti-parasitic and can be used with Focus to promote binding to food items, Focus also enhances palatability. Garlic also is another I can recommend, with numerous studies showing that it improves and enhances antibody response to infections, other than enhancing palatability of food however, it is probably most useful in treating viral and bacterial infections.
Good luck, and I hope it's not too little too late for ya Donovan!

 

Andy,
Any chance you would be interested in putting this into an article and adding it to our WIKI? This question comes up quite often and then we could just link to the WIKI.

 

Yea I can do that, I'll cut/paste and do a little editing (syntax/spelling) and put it up there! I can also expand on it. Let me know how you'd like me to roll it over and I'll post it there within the next day or so.

 

OHHHHHHH heartache! I can't even imagine loosing my wrasse, I would definitely cry. Kindest regards, Andy

 

Posted By Andy The Reef Guy on 11/27/2010 09:11 PM
Looks like many have chimed in to help with this situation. However I would still add insights from my philosophy, as developed from many years as an aquarium diagnostitian while working at IC petland, as well as my profesional opinion (being educated in hydrology and biology) concerning disease pathology in the aqueous environment;
The best case scenario is NOT to remove the fish, this added visual stress just reduces their ability to mount an immune response to the parasite, additionally treatment with chemicals can be effective at killing the parasite but often stresses the host as well, especially when done in a quarentine environment, reintroduction to the display tank too soon can leave their immune systems impaired and overall more suceptable to infections. Formaldyhyde and formaldyhyde derivitive treatments are more effective than most chemical based treatments with the added benefit that they not only kill the parasitic larvae, but it is also effective at killing and dislodging the adult, however this is much more effective at higher concentrations, consequently these treatments are especially stressful for the fish, and not at all reef safe. The only way these types of treatment can be considered "reef safe" is at the recomended ultra low concentrations recomended by the manufacturer, which is albeit scarecly effective at treating the parasite. Moreover, high concentrations of formaldyhyde, formalin, and malachite are precipetive, and evaporate quickly from tank water at 78 degrees, making it difficult to prolong treatment at slightly elevated concentrations. The most effective way to use formaldyhyde based treatments is to make a 5 gallon dip solution of seawater at a concentration of 80ppm formaldyhyde/formalin, areate vigorously, (maintain like temperature, pH, and salinity) and treat the fish for 5 minutes before transfering to a sterile quarentine tank for recovery. Ultimately these types of treatments are very stressful and better suited for treating larger specimens with weight and calories to burn.
Of course if you're going to remove the fish hyposalinity is a much more preferred and proven method for treating these fish. It is problematic however, maintaining a quarentine environment for long periods is difficult, there is no nitrifying fauna to aid in ammonia and nitrite reduction, and often time aquarists use small quarentine tanks, compounding these forementioned problems and adding spacial constraints that also stress the fish. Hyposalnic treatment also requires time and isn't a great treatment for dire cases, especially since fish are reluctant to continue feeding after being moved.
At this level of infection complaciancy is not an option either. Typically most fish live with small cultures of many types of parasites and viruses their entire lives, this is especially true in wild populations. When widespread infection ensues in captive systems the natual suspicion of any aquarist should be, "why is this animals immune system supressed?" There typically is a rhudementary problem; is the fish a new member of the community? Are the fish attacking or stressing one another? Did a new fish come from a stressful environment (the fish store)? Is there a problem with poor water quality? (low dKh is a common and widespread problem for many aquarists, especially beginners), etc. Be sure to check your parameters and I often suggest moving to a third option of treatment;
Boost the temp, feed like hell, maintain your water parameters, and treat with UV or Ozone. 9/10 this is the BEST option for treating even, and especially advanced cases of parasitic infection. Worst case scenario you loose all of your fish (which in the case of advanced infection is likely to happen anyways, and especially due to harsh treatment) and the parasite dies off since it has no host to infect. Again, in the case of severe infections with fish weighing more than 100-150 grams, (excluding tangs due to their sensitive nature) it often works well to throw caution to the wind and treat with formaldyhyde. In this treatment regime, again, feeding may very well be the root of the problem, if your fish are immuno compromised due to poor nutrition.
Feeding is the key to treatment when fish are being taxed by parasitic hosts, and cessation of a feeding response is paramount to death for any animals this size regardless of their parasitic condition. Food and food enrichment, and antibiotic administration via food is a another part of this third treatment option. Seachem offers products like Metroniazol and Focus which is my #1 choice for treating acute to advanced parasitic infections. Metroniazol is indicated as a topical/medical anti-parasitic and can be used with Focus to promote binding to food items, Focus also enhances palatability. Garlic also is another I can recommend, with numerous studies showing that it improves and enhances antibody response to infections, other than enhancing palatability of food however, it is probably most useful in treating viral and bacterial infections.
Good luck, and I hope it's not too little too late for ya Donovan!


I have to disagree with you.
You may be able toget this fish to pull through by feeding with Garlic, and you may fatten him up, but unless you remove the fish & allow the tank to go fallow for 6+ weeks you will always be fighting ICH.  Then what will happen is you will want another fish, buy & add another fish or two, then you will have another outbreak.
I will quote some articles from some published experts.  Note not one of them recomend trying to treat ich while in the aquarium.
From Kelly Jedlicki
To rid the tank of the parasite:
 I would recommend removing ALL of the fish and place in a separate bare bottom quarantine tank.  By removing the fish, the parasite does not have a host to complete its life cycle.  The tank will have to remain fallow (fishless) for a minimum of 4 weeks, I prefer 8 weeks. Another option would be to treat the main tank with copper.  I do not recommend this especially if this is a reef, one with liverock or substrate.  Copper will KILL inverts, corals and the micro fauna on the live rock.  Substrate will leach/absorb the copper and the therapeutic treatment levels needed to cure/rid the parasite will not be achieved.  There are many advertised/marketed "reef safe" ich cures - I don't recommend them.  If you visist enough sites, talk to enough hobbyists, you will find those that highly recommend these products and then others that have had miserable or disastrous results....this is true about every aspect of life and science.  I do not gamble when it comes to the life of an animal, fish or human.
What to do for the fish:
All the fish need to be treated in a separate quarantine/hospital tank. 
*Hyposalinity (S.G. 1.009 - measured with a refractometer at least daily) for a minimum of 4 weeks.  The parasite can not live in hyposalinity.
* The tank needs to be bare bottom (no substrate) with hiding spots for the fish.  Hiding spots should be things that can be sterilized after each use - pvc pipe/couplings or those plastic caves/decorations used in freshwater tanks.
* There should be some source of biological filtration.  I prefer air driven sponge filters that can be cycled or maintained in your display system's sump or a sponge or bioballs in a HOB (hang on the back filter).  Both of these can be quickly removed from the display system and added to the QT.
* Additional aeration (air stone or power head pointed from the bottom of the tank to surface) will also be needed as these fish are stressed and this causes an increase demand for oxygen. 
*Another option is to treat with copper in the quarantine/hospital tank.  Copper has been proven as an affective treatment. Copper too is an irritant and fish breeders have found it to affect fertility. Copper kills inverts, algaes, corals.  Some fish (scale-less fish, elasmobranchs) are very sensitive to copper and do not do well.   If you use copper, in addition to the other water parameters, you must monitor the copper levels daily to prevent toxicity as well as subtherapeutic levels (low) as both extremes will affect the outcome/cure.
Whether you choose hyposalinity or copper treatment, you must monitor the water parameters in the tank at least daily as pH, ammonia and nitrite levels can change rapidly.  This causes additional stress which can affect the success of cure.  Frequent water changes and the addition of buffer to maintain pH are required.
Improving the fish's immune system will also help.  You can do this by the addition of beta glucan, vitamins and garlic to the fish's diet daily while in treatment.
Watch closely for secondary infections as mentioned above.  Antibiotics may need to be added.  I would not recommend treating with antibiotics prophylactically or "just in case" as this can add stress or lead to a drug resistant pathogens.
Don't like these proven methods of cure- The only other option is to break down the tank & start over.
Here is another response from Anthony Calfo after being asked about ICH
"Now on to the Ich I have tried upping the temp, 82, and garlic supplements, to no avail. "
--- Neither is a primary means of treatment... they are secondary/supportive at best. Once infected, fish need to be isolated (4 weeks /DesktopModules/ActiveForums/themes/_default/emoticons/wink.gif ) while the display runs fallow without a viable host. Daily water changes from the bottom of the tank for 8 consecutive days can actually break the cycle (Ich) without meds in some cases... but play it safe and do FW dips and/or Formalin treatments to be safe. 3-5 FW dips in 5 days is quite effective. 3 minutes min... preferably 5-7 minutes if the species is tolerant. Anything less than 3 minutes is literally a waste of time. Fishes acting sluggish or laying down in the bucket is normal... but spitting water at the surface is great duress and warrants early pull from the dip.
And from Bob Fenner
After you have confirmed that you are, indeed dealing with Marine Ich , your first move in attacking this disease is to remove all of the fishes from the affected aquarium to a separate, bare aquarium of appropriate size for a treatment and recovery regimen that will last from 30 to 45 days. Did I just say "all of the fishes", even if they are not showing signs of infection? Yes I did! Even though they may not be displaying symptoms now, they have been exposed, and the very real possibility of infection looms. If there is one thing I have learned in my battles with this disease, it is that it’s always better to be safe then sorry! The first half of the treatment period will involve treating the fishes with medication, and the second half of the treatment period will allow the fishes to regain their strength before being returned to their aquarium. By following this careful treatment regimen, you will assure that your fishes have their best chance to recover from this nasty disease
highly recommend performing a freshwater dip on each fish before being placed in the treatment tank. The freshwater should be properly buffered and heated to the same temperature as the tank that your fishes have been residing in. Use of a non-toxic anti-bacterial agent, such as Methylene Blue, is encouraged during the dip. Use enough Methylene Blue to color the water a deep blue. The duration of the dip should be from 3 to 5 minutes, depending on the tolerance of the individual fish(es) being dipped. Keep a close eye on the fish during the dip process, and be prepared to remove them to the treatment tank quickly, should they show extreme distress during this process. The freshwater dip is a standard part of the acclimation and quarantine process at most public aquariums throughout the world, and is an effective procedure that can reduce or eliminate many external parasites, including Cryptocaryon. The reason that freshwater dips are so successful is that the parasites simply cannot make the osmotic "stretch" to freshwater as well as the fish can.
After the dip process has been completed, the fishes should be placed in the treatment aquarium. The aquarium should have water conditions (specific gravity, pH, etc) that approximate those in the aquarium from which they came. Some hobbyists prefer to lower the specific gravity in the treatment aquarium to 1.015 or less, a procedure known as "hyposalinity". This technique is used for many of the same reasons that the freshwater dip is performed. I personally do not utilize this process, but it certainly has its proponents.
Administer an over-the-counter copper sulphate preparation (specifically formulated for aquarium use). Follow the manufacturer’s instructions concerning its use exactly as instructed by the manufacturer. Always use a test kit to monitor the concentration of copper in the water, in order to assure that you’re maintaining a proper therapeutic dosage. Be sure that you replenish the copper as needed each time you change the water in the treatment aquarium. Do not assume that your treatment tank has the correct level of copper! You run the risk of diluting the copper to an ineffective level, or possibly increasing it to a toxic level. I cannot stress it enough-always test the copper level when using it to treat disease. It literally could mean the difference between life or death for your fishes. Enough said.
Since the Cryptocaryon parasite enters a free-swimming phase, when it heads to the bottom of the aquarium after detaching from the fishes, you may actually be removing some of these parasite cysts when you siphon debris from the bottom of the treatment aquarium. Regular water changes are a highly effective means of maintaining water quality and removing some of these cysts. I recommend changing 5% of the treatment aquarium’s water volume twice a week during the treatment period.
Long-term exposure to copper can be harmful to fishes. Tangs, in particular, can suffer if they linger too long in copper-treated water. They harbor beneficial digestive bacteria, which enable them to process their food. These bacteria may be adversely affected by long-term copper exposure. The idea here is to employ a one-to-two-week exposure to the copper medication, and then reduce the copper level through water changes (without replenishing the copper, of course) and absorptive filter media, such as Poly Filter. If you are treating fishes such as Centropyge angelfishes, which have a reputation for copper sensitivity, you may want to utilize an aquarium medication containing Formalin, instead of copper. The remainder of your fishes stay in the treatment aquarium will be dedicated to providing them with high-quality foods, good water quality, and careful observation. Use this period of time to ascertain that your fishes are once again healthy, and that no secondary infections have had the opportunity to manifest themselves
 
The Home Front
After removing your fishes to a "hospital" tank for observation and treatment, you will have created a serious disruption to the life cycle of the Cryptocaryon parasite. Your main system will be running in a "fallow" state. Invertebrates may remain in the display aquarium, as they are not susceptible to the illness, nor are they thought to be a "vector" for the illness. In the absence of hosts, most of the free-swimming theronts will perish . This is where an understanding of the parasite’s life cycle will pay off. By letting your tank run "fallow", you will significantly reduce the number of parasites remaining in the system, which will make the likelihood of a new outbreak much less when your fishes are "repatriated".
The fallow period will last a minimum of one month. During the fallow period, do continue to perform routine water changes and other maintenance tasks in the aquarium. Not only will you be maintaining a cleaner system with fewer organics, but you may actually be physically removing some of the encysted and free-swimming parasites themselves from the system, particularly if you siphon the substrate. Also, performing your routine maintenance procedures on your tank during the fallow period, you help assure that your newly-cured specimens will be returning to a clean, stable aquarium environment.
After the fallow period, and after you have determined that your fishes are once again in good health, you may return them back to their aquarium. The procedure that I have outlined here is based upon successful, tried-and-true methods used by countless private and professional aquarists alike for years. None of the procedures are radical or revolutionary, but they do work! Keep in mind, however, that no treatment procedure, regardless of how well thought out or comprehensive, can guarantee 100% effectiveness at eradicating this, or any disease. As more research is done in the marine fish arena, no doubt more comprehensive and effective treatment protocols may enter the fray.
There are a few promising alternative treatment techniques for ich that are being discussed with increasing frequency on marine hobby internet message boards and in hobby publications. The use of garlic extract to treat marine ich has received quite a bit of attention lately, although its effectiveness is based largely on anecdotal evidence, and has not been thoroughly studied to date. Garlic proponents suggest that a substance contained in fresh garlic extract, Allicin (Diallyl thiosulphate) acts as a "blocker" to chemical cues used by the Cryptocaryon parasite to recognize its potential host. Use of garlic extracts may prove to be more valuable as a preventative, rather than a true "treatment" after the disease has manifested itself in fishes. Hopefully, further research at both the hobby and scientific level will yield further useful answers on this topic.

 

Craig gets the award for longest post!
I also agree with running fallow and NOT treating the tank. But there are different opinions as shown here. The only method I would fight tooth and nail is adding "reef safe" chemicals to the tank and I feel this should be GIRS position formally. But the different methods should be proposed to let the reader decide what is best for them.
Since Andy has a keen interest in the topic is why I asked him to write a Wiki that then we could got through and add different opinions so the reader could make up their mind. I just hate seeing us re-invent the wheel every few weeks when this topic comes up.
Of course Andy, I just noticed you aren't a Member. You may have to pay dues to get access to the Wiki module. /DesktopModules/ActiveForums/themes/_default/emoticons/shocked.gif

 

No he didn't, posting other peoples opinions and articles doesn't count.
And yes I know, I'm long overdue but I've been broke. And now I'm broke, and I just broke my camera so GIRS is going to have to wait. I will write something more comprehensive at some point and post it to the wiki when I'm able to afford dues in another month or two.
Craig, I'm afraid you didn't do a very good job of disagreeing with me at all. Yes these authors have written on the subject of the preferred method of treatment hyposalinity, which absolutely works and should be employed in best case scenarios. However, with a proper education of my own in; biology, immunology, biochemistry, endocrinology, organic chemistry, chemistry, and disease pathology, I fundamentally disagree (or rather have a different angle) with some of their opinions on SOME fronts, and there are caveats to their offered opinions; first and foremost, considering that they live in an aqueous environment, fish will always have cultures of bacteria, fungus, viruses, and parasites living dormantly with them, ALWAYS. Some helpful, some harmful, some benign, but ALWAYS.
Second, these authors (with respect in light of their accomplishments and opinions) make no consideration for the onset or phase of the infection, or condition of the host. These are merely, again, offerings for a best case scenario approach without the caveats of bearing in mind that there are considerations to be made. You can absolutley be successful at suppressing the onset of ich with the methods I've suggested, and as for treating the parasite UV or Ozone can erradicate free swimming larvae that hatch at the end of the adults life cycle, resulting in a stepwise reduction of the concentration of said larvae. BUT, typical "hobby" sized UV units aren't the most effective, and when neglected, not at all. I use periodically and recommend at least an 80watt UV unit with a quartz sleeve wipe. The bulb must be replaced regularly and the sleeve must be cleaned at least once a week to maintain effectiveness. This is IMO the BEST treatment for acute cases. When the infection is past the intermediate stage and things get really hairy, I take a more utilitarian approach and recommend this route again.
As for Anthony Calfo and keeping with "natural approaches to reefkeeping," it's neither practical nor preferable to exterminate all potentially harmful fauna within your aquarium. It might not surprise you that authors and expert ichthyologists are not only, or most saturated in the reef aquarium sector, most work in the aquaculture industry or as part of research outfits with universities and laboratories. Among these experts there is a varying amount of agreement upon the best methods for treating disease outbreaks. I've read the arguments on many sides, and I use my own common sense to reason the best approach for each situation.
I apologize if I seemed to counter your opinion, because (based on the situation) I don't, however I was attempting to shed more light on a very large and complicated topic. I had noted previously that I believed that garlic was best suited for bacterial applications, and it is. But, many studies have show that it is effective with SOME types of parasites, mostly intestinal parasites. I would love to see links to studies if there is empiracle data concerning; garlic (allicin), piscine treatment and cryptocaryon. In the meantime I'm going to comb through the last 3 years of my Aquaculture International Journals and see if I can find any further information.
Peace guys,
ANdy