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Solved lessons learned with Apex

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by ricowind67, Nov 16, 2017.

  1. Nov 16, 2017 #1
    ricowind67 Clear Lake, IA

    ricowind67

    213
    Clear Lake, IA
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    I just wanted to share with the group my Apex experience concerning dosing pumps and the outlet configuration using the Apex EB8.


    And this may be common knowledge to many of you experts, but wanted it to pass this info along due to the fact that this experience almost nuked my tank.


    I dose a diluted batch of Zeo3 using a BRS dosing pump via apex which is powered and controlled by outlet number 1 on my EB8, over the course of the last 2 months I was seeing that solution was being used faster than calculated, it was supposed to dose 9ml daily which was programmed by having the pump operate for 18 minutes daily.


    A few days ago I noted the container of solution was empty after just 15 days of use, the container should have lasted 55 days.


    Meanwhile I noted that corals were becoming dull in color and looking drab, perhaps from the overdose of the Zeo3 solution.


    One of the troubleshooting tools I used were the logs on my Apex fusion that would show the cycles of the switch operation through outlet number 1, and to add I investigated if it was creating a siphon, my troubleshooting efforts came up empty with nothing conclusive.


    After some in depth research on the web it was noted that all the outlets except for outlets 4 and 8 will not completely shut down properly when using low voltage devices such as Dosing pumps and solenoids. This is due to the fact that it uses a Triac to control voltage through the outlet instead of a mechanical relay, which is how outlets 4 and 8 work


    I actually tested this and sure enough when I would manually shut the outlet on and off, the dosing pump would not shut off and keep running.


    Just wanted to pass this experience on to all you fellow reefers


    Thanks for stopping by
     
  2. Nov 17, 2017 #2
    Bud West Des Moines, IA

    Bud Loves Bacon Website Team Board of Directors Leadership Team GIRS Member Vendor

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    That's not good.

    A few months back, I made a custom algae scrubber fixture that was going to get hooked into an Apex for control. When he hooked it up (through a 0-10V to PWM converter board) it wouldn't shut all the way off. Turns out at "zero" output on the Apex, there was actually a fractional voltage output that the interface board was converting to a very low level PWM output. The "solution" that the guys on the Neptune forum gave was to put a certain diode in line with the signal line from the Apex, which turned that low-voltage "zero" into an actual zero.

    I thought that was a bit odd. I find your experience @ricowind67@ricowind67 a bit odd as well. I wonder if there is a connection?

    So when the outlet is "off", can you measure a voltage on the outlet?
     
  3. Nov 17, 2017 #3
    stew Ankeny, IA

    stew Well-Known ReefKeeper GIRS Member

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    Following. Not good when off really isn't...
     
  4. Nov 17, 2017 #4
    beckerj3 West Des Moines, IA

    beckerj3 Expert Reefkeeper Board of Directors Leadership Team GIRS Member

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    West Des Moines, IA
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    I had a similar experience with my Reef Keeper. What I found out is that 2 of the outlets are 'solid state' and the other two are 'relay controlled'. It is/was necessary for my dosing pumps to be on the relay controlled channels. If they were on the solid state channels, they would not always turn off. I believe I read that the new PB4's for the Reef Keeper have an enhancement to correct this problem.

    I think when I was researching this problem on the Reef Keeper that I heard a similar issue with APEX. But I might be wrong.
     
  5. Nov 17, 2017 #5
    jeremy Davenport, IA

    jeremy Acro Addict

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    Davenport, IA
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    On a eb8 use the 4&8 positions. On an eb4 I think all 4 can be used.
     
  6. Nov 17, 2017 #6
    Actuary Adel, IA

    Actuary Well-Known ReefKeeper

    705
    Adel, IA
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    I've heard of this before. However, I've personally never had issues dosing zeostart, alk, and calcium through low powered peristaltic pumps plugged into the non-mechanical EB8 outlets.

    I use Drew's doser and a BRS doser:
    BRS Drew's Doser Peristaltic Dosing Pump
    and
    BRS 2 Part Doser - 1.1 mL per minute
    ^^btw that looks like a great deal right now.

    Not sure what the wattage is on drew's doser but the BRS one says 3W. Were the dosing pumps you were using even lower powered?
     
  7. Nov 17, 2017 #7
    beckerj3 West Des Moines, IA

    beckerj3 Expert Reefkeeper Board of Directors Leadership Team GIRS Member

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    West Des Moines, IA
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    I use the BRS 2 part doser - 1.1 ml per minute. It didn't always fail when they were on the solid state outlets - but one failure was enough - that it can't be counted on.
     
  8. Nov 17, 2017 #8
    ricowind67 Clear Lake, IA

    ricowind67

    213
    Clear Lake, IA
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    Turbo,

    just check outlet 1 120vac when operated into the on position and 9.67vac when cycled off
     
  9. Nov 17, 2017 #9
    Actuary Adel, IA

    Actuary Well-Known ReefKeeper

    705
    Adel, IA
    Ratings:
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    Hrmm that is concerning. I wish I had more mechanical outlets. I have two EB8s (so four relay outlets) but I am using two of them for heavier power draws since they have a higher amp rating. That leaves me one outlet shy for two part plus zeo dosing.

    I believe the EB4 is entirely mechanical outlets so that might be an option.
     
  10. Nov 17, 2017 #10
    blackx-runner Cedar Rapids, IA

    blackx-runner Administrator Website Team Leadership Team

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    That always used to be the case. I assume it still is unless they change the design.

    I thought there was mention in the manual of the potential problem with the triac outlets on low power devices. Maybe that was just from the forums I picked that info up.
     
  11. Nov 17, 2017 #11
    Sponge Marshalltown, IA

    Sponge Expert Reefkeeper Vendor

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    There are 2 relay outlets on the EB8, the 4 & 8.

    We have many members that use the Apex and RK. Never hesitate to ask any question about them, ever! If I remember correctly, years ago someone posted a thread and said something to the effect.........Getting an Apex. Anything you think I should know before setting it up? One of the responses was yeah, use outlets 4 and 8 for your dosing pumps if you plan to use dosers. Someone else said, make sure you download the manual as it's a great reference for help, questions, etc. One just never knows unless they ask:D

    Hope your corals have recovered!!!
     
  12. Nov 20, 2017 #12
    Waterrat41 Des moines

    Waterrat41 Addicted Reefer GIRS Member

    297
    Des moines
    Ratings:
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    I bought an EB 4 and run my dosing pumps and ATO off of it...love the results.
    On another note...check the output rate of your pumps, I did and mine pump 1.6ml/minute (BRS dosing pumps)
     

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