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Kylie`s 40g Reef Build

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Kylie, Feb 25, 2010.

  1. Kylie

    Kylie Inactive User

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    Hello everyone! Many of you may know, this is my first ever big reef build project. I currently have a 20g long with a few corals and a pair of clowns. What I've been working on is upgrading to a 40g breeder. I don't have much done yet, but have a few pieces towards the big project. So far, I have a stand and canopy hanging out in my dad's shed. It is unfinished and unbuilt. I had started sanding and got all the supplies to stain and seal the wood but then winter came a little early and haulted my fun. Apparently you can't stain unless its at least 50 degrees outside, so, I am asking questions and gathering supplies to do as much as I can before I finish the furniture.
    Here are a couple pictures of what they'll look like built but unfinished:
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    [[​IMG]
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    As for lighting, with adequate ventilation from a couple clamp fans, I'm going to install a 2x150watt MH retrofit along with 2x39watt T5's for some extra actinic for some more color pop. I have the metal halide kit but still need to get the T5 from work.
    Now, onto my current big project as a part of this HUGE project /DesktopModules/ActiveForums/themes/_default/emoticons/smile.gif I am attempting my first DIY sump. I have a 29g tank that will fit nicely inside my stand with a little leg room. Now I'm trying to figure out a few things but I don't know much about these systems yet. Hopefully you guys can help. I've been looking at AJ's sump thread and I really like his design but I still have a few questions.
    1) What is the difference between tumbling chaeto vs. rooted marine plants? What benefits do each bring? Are there advantages or disadvantages of either?
    2) A lot of you seem to have your skimmers and water pumps outside of the sump. How do you do that? Does anybody have any more info about this or a nice diagram showing how its done/what's going on?
    3) What are your opinions on a deep sandbed in the refugium? I've heard from some people it can help with nitrates while others say it hurts that. Why/How?
    4) What are general ideas/chambers to have in a sump? Keep in mind, I only have a 29g to work with but if someone can teach me how to do the external pump and skimmer that'll save a lot of room. So far, I've heard of where the water comes in which is where the skimmer is, then multiple options of a refugium and/or a chaeto chamber (again, I'm not sure what the differences are so an explanation will go a long way), then a final chamber where the ATO sensor and return areas are. What other things should I know? Any and ALL opinions appreciated /DesktopModules/ActiveForums/themes/_default/emoticons/smile.gif
    5) Once I finally get all of this figured out, where can I get my glass baffles cut? I've read some places that a few of you have gone to hardware stores while other's order online. Which do you prefer and why? Also, how do I know what sizes to cut? How much room on the sides and bottom should I leave to seal them to the tank? Also, how do you know how tall to make each baffle? Especially the tallest one?
    Sorry about the long post, and except for asking and answering questions, my updates will be few and far inbetween. I'm a college student at the University of Iowa with a double science major so I don't have much time to work on my project much, let alone my low college funds /DesktopModules/ActiveForums/themes/_default/emoticons/smile.gif But, it's worth it. I love this hobby! Thanks to all of you for getting me into it!!!
    Thanks!!!
    Kylie
     
  2. snowman82

    snowman82 Experienced Reefkeeper

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    question 1...no idea. i've been running cheato since i started my 125 over a year ago. mine hasn't grown a whole lot like some peoples will. somes cheato will double and triple in size in a few weeks, mine has taken a year to do that haha. i believe that to be because of the lack of actual flow i have through my sump. i'm working at correcting this.

    question 2...The people that run the external stuff have room for it. with you putting everything in a 36" stand with a 30" sump. you wont have room. reasons people do this are multiple. i did it to make more room in my sump and allow for easier maintenance and put less heat back into the tank butttt....i'm switching back to all internal with a recirculating skimmer so take it for what its worth. with being in stand i would just leave it internal.

    question 3...sand beds i think can help with PH levels, i run a little sand in my sump but i dont know if it helps or hurts. i'm really not sure about a DSB i haven't heard any concrete evidence they hurt or help...

    question 4....with your sump tank do 3 chambers. one chamber being your return from the tank and your skimmer. then fuge then return back to the tank. to help the cheato move around a little, make it so the water enters the fuge from the bottom side of the divider. so then the water has to go up, and when it exits the fuge have it exit the top side. the will create more of a flow. when i made my first sump i had it enter and exit on the top and things just sat there.

    question 5...your in iowa city, i got no idea /DesktopModules/ActiveForums/themes/_default/emoticons/smile.gif cut them about an 1/8th inch narrower than needed. as far as height for your sump and turnover i would thing maybe around 1-1.5" from the bottom of the tank and the water level in the sump is kinda up to you, but you have to make sure it wont flood if you have a power outage. the tallest baffle will be your chamber that holds the skimmer and return water from the display tank. that chamber will never change water level. so make sure you have enough in there to run your skimmer correctly. i built a platform to hold my skimmer in the correct water height the first time. there ya go. those are my thoughts /DesktopModules/ActiveForums/themes/_default/emoticons/smile.gif
     
  3. snowman82

    snowman82 Experienced Reefkeeper

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    oh yeah and i really like the stand and canopy, looks nice
     
  4. Kylie

    Kylie Inactive User

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    Thank you for all the info. This'll help a lot with all my planning. I really like the canopy a lot. And the doors seem to match well on the stand and canopy, I hope that even though they don't have the same trim, once I get them both stained the same color they will match nicely.

    Again, thanks for all the help!

    Kylie
     
  5. Bluefool

    Bluefool Inactive User

    377
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    Well, I think I can answer the tumbling question.

    When you tumble the chaeto, all of the mass is exposed to the fuge light, where as if you don't spin it a large part of the plant mass is in shadow and not really doing what you want it to. So, tumbling it allows it to soak up more nutrients since it has the light it needs all over the plant mass rather than just the top. Since chaeto tends to grow fast, is pretty hard to kill, and its dead cheap, and real easy to trim (just rip a handfull off when it gets too big...) and doesn't need good light, it tends to win out over rooted plants. And since rooted plants are pricey, are sometimes hard to establish, often would really like a MH, require a decent substrate, and once you do get the suckers established, you can mess that up easy trimming them, chaeto wins out as the easiest and cheapest solution.

    Plus, that big spinning mass seems to be the Honeymoon Suite for 'pods.
     
  6. Bluefool

    Bluefool Inactive User

    377
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    I am the *King* of the run on sentence. The *KING* baby!

    /DesktopModules/ActiveForums/themes/_default/emoticons/wink.gif
     
  7. Reefified

    Reefified Well-Known ReefKeeper

    386
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    I live in Marion and when I built my sump (exactly what you are building), I purchased my cut glass from a local hardware store for around $5 each. I purchased by baffle for the skimmer to the refugium online made out of drilled Lexan but should have just used glass. Hindsight, I would have probably used glass. I can email you pics of my sump and how I constructed if you like. Was easy and saved a lot of money.

    Chad
     
  8. Kylie

    Kylie Inactive User

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    Another newb question. What types of nutrients does the chaeto absorb? Why is this good?

    That would be really awesome if you could post your pics of your sump plan /DesktopModules/ActiveForums/themes/_default/emoticons/smile.gif
     
  9. adampottebaum

    adampottebaum Experienced Reefkeeper GIRS Member

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    I think mangroves can export much much more than chaeto can. They are a little more time consuming, as you have to spray the leaves every couple days to remove the salt it precipitates on its leaves. I'm not sure if it's chaeto or caulurpa, but one of them will go "sexual" if you leave it be for a while. It will spread everywhere in the tank. Mangroves just need some way of supporting them upright, plenty of light, and a spraying every few days. A lot of people will use a 6500 K bulb for 18-24 hrs a day with great results. They are not expensive if you look in the right places, many people(including me) have ordered off ebay or reefcleaners.org for $1 or less a piece. I'm sure there are other places with them also, these are just the two I've ordered from, with great results.

    Do you know what kind of skimmer you will be getting? It can be mounted outside of the tank(probably needs to be behind the tank in your case) by drilling the tank(if it's not tempered) and installing bulkheads/slip fittings. Let us know what skimmer you will be using and it will be easier to help.

    Deep sand beds eventually turn oxygen free in the bottom of a deep sand bed and this houses a certain kind of bacteria that is very good at exporting nutrients. They will also help with the ph and provide a place where pods can grow/reproduce. The only thing bad about DSB's is that they accumulate nitrates and phosphates deep in the sand over time and eventually it will get too much to hold and it will release it back into the tank. Experts suggest replacing DSB's every 6 months to a year to prevent this.

    For baffles, I've always gotten acrylic sheets from any hardware store and cut them to size. Then I put them in using 100% silicone, works pretty good. You can buy a long handled razor type blade with a hook attachment on it that you can pull-cut across the acrylic to score it, the it will crack along that scoring. Gered posted a good article a few days ago on making baffles for a tank. It uses a rubber edging around the baffles to make them water tight, while allowing you to move them when ever you need to. This is how I will be building my next sump. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_3/cav3i1/Baffles/bafflesart.htm

    -Adam
     
  10. adampottebaum

    adampottebaum Experienced Reefkeeper GIRS Member

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    Mangroves can export nitrates, phosphates, and other chemical contaminants. Chaeto(as far as I know) can only export nitrates.
     
  11. snowman82

    snowman82 Experienced Reefkeeper

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    mangroves also use up magnesium as well
     
  12. Bela

    Bela Inactive User

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    I don't think anyone has touched on your skimmer and pump question. The answer is pretty simple. You need an external skimmer and an inline pump if you want both your return and skimmer to be external. This is in the design of the product. If that is what you want, you should look into buying an external skimmer and an inline pump for your return. IMO there isn't an INNATE benefit from an external skimmer over an in sump skimmer, or vice versa. Obviously you will still have some performing better than others depending on what you buy and possibly on any modification done. My understanding about inline pump versus a submersible pump is that submersibles export all of their heat into the water surrounding them while inlines export a portion of it into the air surrounding them. Having used both types of pumps I believe I prefer the inlines over the submersible pumps if for no other reason, freeing up space t work in the sump if need be. I also tend to get way more coralline and calcium buildup on the submersible pumps versus the inlines.
     
  13. Kylie

    Kylie Inactive User

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    Wow, thank you everyone for all the awesome responces. As for the skimmer, I'm not quite sure yet. I was originally going to get a Reef Octopus NWB 110 but I recently had to get a new HOB. So the skimmer I have now is a new HOB reef octopus ment for 100g. And one of the fish guys at work was showing me how I could use that in my skimmer so long as I had the water high enough in that compartment. Do you recommend rigging my sump so I can use the HOB skimmer or biting the cost and getting the insump version?
     
  14. FishBrain Expert Reefkeeper GIRS Member

    New London
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    I would definatly get the octo 110 if it were me then sell the hob to make up for the extra cost. I love the canopy.
    -Bill
     
  15. Kylie

    Kylie Inactive User

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    Thanks! I do too! I love the canopy sooooo much. I just wish the stand matched/looked as fancy as the canopy but the tank is what most people will look at anyway /DesktopModules/ActiveForums/themes/_default/emoticons/smile.gif
     
  16. FishBrain Expert Reefkeeper GIRS Member

    New London
    Ratings:
    +396 / 6 / -0
    If you realy wanted to you could get some trim that matches the trim around the top of the canopy and replace the bords around the top of the stand. But it will match up fine after it is stained eather way.
    -Bill
     
  17. Kylie

    Kylie Inactive User

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    Yeah, I agree. Once I get it stained it'll hopefully look pretty shnazzy /DesktopModules/ActiveForums/themes/_default/emoticons/smile.gif
     
  18. Kylie

    Kylie Inactive User

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    What is the best design, in any of your experience, to get a good spin on a ball of chaeto in a refugium?
     
  19. Bluefool

    Bluefool Inactive User

    377
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    Calfo suggested a lip at the top of the baffle on the upstream side, in the chaeto chamber. Something like a 1/4" strip about 1/4 of an inch down from the top of the baffle. I'm going to give that a shot in my build.

    Oh, and calupra (probably spelled it wrong) is the one that can go sexual and mess up your chemistry fast.

    Another good choice is that red stuff....garcia something or other.

    The best spinning ball I have seen in person is Matt the Fiddlers. I'm afraid I can't recall how he got it spinning, but he might chime in here.
     
  20. Kylie

    Kylie Inactive User

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    Thanks for the suggestion and I'll see if I can send him a pm.
     

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