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Help!! Advice? Getting back in

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by nlandgraf, Mar 8, 2018.

  1. nlandgraf

    nlandgraf

    174
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    A catastrophic tank crash turned me off on the hobby a few years back. We were building a house and part of the design was a "fish room" down in the basement. After losing everything I had just moved the equipment down and let it sit....for 2 years....

    I am rejuvenated and ready to get my display setup again. I am looking for some guidance on the plumbing as I am trying something new. I am looking to use the Herbie method for the overflow, I have dual overflow boxes on a 150 gallon, 6 foot tank. The sump will not be directly underneath the display though, it will be off to the side so I can access equipment easier. (The entire setup would look L-shaped on a floor plan.)

    My question is this, should I:

    1) Do a dual herbie method, with the return running up the back side of the tank? There would be elbows in the drain lines since the sump is off to the side.

    2) Do a single herbie method with one overflow box and run the return back in the 2nd overflow box? If I did this, what would I use the 4th drilled hole for? (1st overflow box #1 hole for siphon drain #2 hole for emergency; 2nd overflow box #3 hole for return, what is #4?)

    I am also planning to T the return for flow into the refugium section of the sump. Any guidance would be greatly appreciated!
     
  2. Actuary Well-Known ReefKeeper GIRS Member

    632
    Adel, IA
    Ratings:
    +116 / 1 / -0
    Welcome back! In my old setup I had my sump and display laid out in that L shape and really liked it.

    2011-07-21_23-10-04_46.jpg


    Unless your sump is already built in a way that forces you into T'ing off your return for a low flow fuge I would consider an alternative sump/fuge concept. The original line of thinking was you want a low flow running through your fuge.. and depending on what you want out of your fuge that may be correct. However, the Triton method is becoming fairly popular and flies in the face of that thinking. The sump/fuge layout in a Triton sump wants high flow through your sump with your display draining entirely into your fuge as the first section of your sump.
    [​IMG]

    This is the layout I went with for my current sump and it works well. The goal for my fuge is to provide a place for additional live rock, pod production, and a place to grow macro algae. It definitely works well for this purpose. Just something to consider... not sure if your sump is able to modified in order to accommodate this at this point or not.
     
  3. Derek34 GIRS Member

    69
    Manchester, IA
    Ratings:
    +14 / 0 / -0
    I'm running a dual herbie set up on my new 120. I have my return line separate running up and over the back in the corner. I love it! It is 100% silent. My sump is directly below the display tank but I do have a couple elbows and horizontal runs due to the layout. I think you would be ok with the sump beside the display.
     
  4. nlandgraf

    nlandgraf

    174
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    Thank you for the input! I am going to go with the dual herbie setup after reading more about it and bean animal. I am just more comfortable setting up with herbie.
     
  5. nlandgraf

    nlandgraf

    174
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    I appreciate the pictures and advice! The triton method was new to me, so your description and picture helped. I have decided that I am going to upsize my sump (currently a 40 long) to accommodate whatever sump setup I go with. I am looking for a deal on a 75 gallon now, but will probably just buy a new tank from Petsmart in Sioux City. If I do end up with the Triton setup, I would follow your picture design, but add a bubble trap baffle in before the return. Now I just need to work through compartment measurements and see if the local glass shop has a decent deal on cutting me a few baffles because the sump with be DIY.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2018
  6. Actuary Well-Known ReefKeeper GIRS Member

    632
    Adel, IA
    Ratings:
    +116 / 1 / -0
    Yep, that's exactly what I did. Turned out exactly how I drew it up. Only flaw is the brace for the tank spans right over where my media tray is. I don't commonly run filter floss in there, but when I do it makes it a bit of a pain to reach in to pull it out.


    Sump Design.jpg


    Sump Pic.jpg


    Note my skimmer is external and actually pulls from the return section and drains back into the fuge (not quite in line with what Triton draws up but it works). One thing to keep in mind as you draw up your plans is that you'll want to leave enough empty space in your sump to accommodate the back siphon that occurs from your DT. That's what prevented me from making my fuge even larger.
     
  7. Derek34 GIRS Member

    69
    Manchester, IA
    Ratings:
    +14 / 0 / -0
    Don't you typically want your fuge after your skimmer and wouldn't you get better skimmer performance if your skimmer drew water from your first compartment receiving water from your display tank?
     
  8. Actuary Well-Known ReefKeeper GIRS Member

    632
    Adel, IA
    Ratings:
    +116 / 1 / -0
    That's been the traditional approach. They argue that you want to allow the macro algae in your fuge the first crack at nutrients.
    https://www.triton-lab.de/fileadmin/user_upload/Brochures/Guide_to_the_TRITON_Method_5-4-17-web.pdf
    Actually it looks like they don't provide a justification in that guide. I can't remember if it was on a FAQ somewhere or a previous version of this guide but they did explain it somewhere.
     
  9. Derek34 GIRS Member

    69
    Manchester, IA
    Ratings:
    +14 / 0 / -0
    That's one of the many great things about this hobby (obsession!). There are so many different ways to do things and be successful.
     
  10. Sponge Expert Reefkeeper Sponsor

    Marshalltown, IA
    Ratings:
    +176 / 0 / -0
    Welcome back nlandgraf!! I have always had my macro algae/chaeto first, and Triton suggests that also. There are many benefits to having the tank drain into the macro algae section first. BRS has several videos on Triton that are very good;) The Triton method is based upon not having to do water changes (or very, very few) so the more room for macro's, the better! They also have information and additives available for "Triton Other Methods" in case you do not/cannot go with their complete/full-blown method.
     
  11. nlandgraf

    nlandgraf

    174
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    I bought a 75 gallon last week to have a larger sump. I think I am going to buy some tools and cut and recycle glass from my 40 gallon sump to make the necessary baffles for the 75. I really hoped to already have that done over the course of this week, but life happened lol.
     
  12. nlandgraf

    nlandgraf

    174
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    I am getting ready to do the baffles on my sump. I bought the GE silicone from Home Depot based upon what I read about avoiding the kitchen/bath silicone that is mildew resistant.

    I am putting a few unions in my plumbing and plan on using a plumbing thread sealant. Is there anything to avoid for leaching concerns/any recommendations of a certain product to use?
     
  13. Bud Loves Bacon Website Team Board of Directors Leadership Team GIRS Member

    West Des Moines, IA
    Ratings:
    +1,692 / 14 / -0
    That silicone should be fine, but what most people gloss over is the cure time. Silicone is safe to water test at 48-72 hours but it will still need 2 weeks to fully cure - this is why you see some people claiming problems even though they used "the right silicone". So play it safe

    regarding the threaded fittings, technically you're not supposed to use teflon tape on plastic threads (only on metal ones) but everyone does. What I've done and it works well for me is 2 wraps of teflon tape, and then spread on a small amount of TFE paste on top of the tape, and put the fittings together. Works great, reef safe. What you want to avoid is over-tightening. This is another "technically" thing...you're technically supposed to put the fittings together without any tape/paste until they are tight, mark both sides, back out the fitting and count the turns, apply the tape/paste, and put the fittings back together to that same amount of turns. The idea is that over-tightening is easy to do with the additional lubrication so you shouldn't do that or you'll risk cracking the fittings. Most people just tighten by hand then add about 1/4 turn with a wrench, which is usually OK but that can actually be a full turn or two past where it should be.
     
  14. Sponge Expert Reefkeeper Sponsor

    Marshalltown, IA
    Ratings:
    +176 / 0 / -0
    What is the TFE paste Bud?
     
  15. Bud Loves Bacon Website Team Board of Directors Leadership Team GIRS Member

    West Des Moines, IA
    Ratings:
    +1,692 / 14 / -0
    The paste version of teflon tape. Super goopy and sticky messy stuff. Shake & mix well...
     
  16. nlandgraf

    nlandgraf

    174
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    How much flow should I be trying to get through the sump with the Triton method? Or the better way to put it, what size return pump should I put in? I had a mag that I used as the return in the past, but I have yet to find where I put it. I may need to be buying a new pump.
     
  17. Actuary Well-Known ReefKeeper GIRS Member

    632
    Adel, IA
    Ratings:
    +116 / 1 / -0
    Triton suggests 10x display volume. So that would be 1500 gph on a 150g display.

    For my 400g display I run a Jebao DCT-15000 which allegedly does about 4000 gph. However, I'm sure I'm getting nowhere close to that after accounting for head loss. I may try their new DCP-20000 pump (5283 gph) when I eventually have to replace mine.
     

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