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Help!! Advice? Alk and calcium problems

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Fred, Dec 8, 2017.

  1. Fred

    147
    Johnston, IA
    Ratings:
    +37 / 0 / -0
    Set up 125 on oct 1 2017. Tank was cycled and added fish oct 29. Got impatient and added my softies and lps from previous smaller tank 2 weeks later. I was just adding kalkwasser to my ato and wasn’t testing for calcium or alk because the few corals I had all looked good. Went to fall fest and bought some sps and lps frags with some zoas as well. Also bought a jeboa dosing pump and some 2 part from brs. I added frags and tested. Alkalinity was 7.5 and calcium 450 so I started dosing like 50ml of alk and 20ml of calcium. Alkalinity was staying around same numbers but calcium was dropping daily so started chasing numbers. Long story short I ended up having to dose 300ml each every day for last almost 3 weeks. This was the only way to keep my alk at 8.5 and calcium 435. But I felt like was dosing way too much for how little coral I had. Another reason I started chasing numbers was because the sps and the new lps were starting to look bad just a week into having them. All sps have bleached completely and one lps (meteor shower) is all but bleached as well. I did find out my potassium is low so with the help of @beckerj3@beckerj3 i am fixing that and also am stopping my dosing of 2 part and going back to kalkwasser in ato. And plan on just doing about 30 gallon water changes once a week to see if I can get more stable numbers. I am curious if 300 ml of each is a crazy high number for a tank with not a lot of coral. All softies and a couple lps still doing good but lost all sps and a couple different lps. Obviously I messed up and was wondering if stopping dosing and and just doing water changes to try and get everything normal again is the way to go and wondering where is all that calcium and alkalinity going daily if I don’t have anything in there that would be soaking up that much to dose that much.
     
  2. beckerj3 Expert Reefkeeper Board of Directors Leadership Team GIRS Member

    West Des Moines, IA
    Ratings:
    +610 / 2 / -0
    First off, I'd cut way back on your water changes - that can be affecting your stability. A 10% water change weekly should be good - about 12-15 gallons. You could even go lower, since you aren't having nitrate or phosphate issues. For my tank I an consistent with doing the water changes weekly, and I'm only doing a 5% water change - or 4 gallons on my 75 g system.

    I forgot to ask - have you tested your makeup water for calcium and alkalinity. Also your salinity. If salinity is low, that will make calcium and alkalinity low. Also, based on the size of your water changes, if your makeup water is low for calcium and/or alkalinity - that can cause a quick change in parameters.
     
  3. Fred

    147
    Johnston, IA
    Ratings:
    +37 / 0 / -0
    Also should clarify I didn’t just start dosing 300 ml off the bat. I was testing daily and numbers kept falling so I kept a upping 2 part until I hit consistently the 8.5 dkh and 435 calcium. I have been dosing the 300 ml each for last 4 days and numbers have been consistent. Also nitrates at 5 consistent phosphate at .05 salinity 1.025 temp at 77.9 ammonia and nitrite 0
     
  4. Fred

    147
    Johnston, IA
    Ratings:
    +37 / 0 / -0
    I have not done a water change yet and last water change was the day before fall fest. Making water now and going to test the new mix before adding. But I will only make 12 gallons like you said instead of the 30 I was planning.
     
  5. xroads Veteran Reefkeeper Vendor

    La Porte City, IA
    Ratings:
    +1,014 / 6 / -0
    There is no way you should be dosing near those numbers. With that small amount of corals small water changes should be enough.

    Either your test kits are screwy, testing procedure is wrong, or it is all precipitating out.
     
  6. Fred

    147
    Johnston, IA
    Ratings:
    +37 / 0 / -0
    @xroads@xroads i used both Red Sea and Hannah checker for calcium and they had almost identical numbers and I got the calibration checker fluid for my Hannah alk checker so I thought maybe it was bad test or me but what are the odds of the Red Sea kit and Hannah checker having same numbers and both be bad also got the calibration fluid for the Hannah calcium checker and it was good. And I’ve been testing daily for almost a month and pretty sure I’m doing testing correctly. But I have been trying to read on this precipitation but haven’t really been able to figure out what that means or how to fix it or know if that is what’s happening. I have a little residue on heaters but nothing else. Is there a dumbed down version to understanding precipitation cuz I’m getting a headache from reading so much about it but not really getting/understanding it fully.
     
  7. beckerj3 Expert Reefkeeper Board of Directors Leadership Team GIRS Member

    West Des Moines, IA
    Ratings:
    +610 / 2 / -0
    Craig - that's what Fred and I discussed this afternoon. What is confusing to me though, is if it is precipitating out (and its huge amounts), wouldn't that be noticable?

    @Fred@Fred - when you stop by on Wednesday, bring a sample of your water and your test kits, and we can compare at my house.
     
  8. Fred

    147
    Johnston, IA
    Ratings:
    +37 / 0 / -0
  9. beckerj3 Expert Reefkeeper Board of Directors Leadership Team GIRS Member

    West Des Moines, IA
    Ratings:
    +610 / 2 / -0
    Fred - we must have been typing at the same time. Sounds like your tests should be good.
     
  10. xroads Veteran Reefkeeper Vendor

    La Porte City, IA
    Ratings:
    +1,014 / 6 / -0
    Think of your water as a big bowl, and all the elements as marbles.

    The bowl (water) can only hold so much. If you add to much it spills out (precipitates).

    If you have any on your heater that is a sure sign of it. It can be accumulating in your rocks, sand etc.

    Stop chasing numbers, do small water changes, and monitor how your corals look for awhile.
     
  11. Fred

    147
    Johnston, IA
    Ratings:
    +37 / 0 / -0
    @xroads@xroads thanks for that explanation. That was kinda my plan now thanks to @beckerj3@beckerj3 but figured might as well post on here to see what anyone would say. But yes I’m just going to do small water changes and stop the 2 part and see how it goes with the coral I have left.
     
  12. xroads Veteran Reefkeeper Vendor

    La Porte City, IA
    Ratings:
    +1,014 / 6 / -0
    You may want to give your pumps and power heads a good vinegar soak. It can really tear them up too.
     
  13. xMermaidxx

    65
    Altoona
    Ratings:
    +19 / 0 / -0
    I would compare test kits with Jeanette and also test your salinity as she suggested.... but have you thought to test your magnesium? It may be a stupidly obvious suggestion, but if your mag is off that would explain a lot. I read that you've been doing lots of water changes, so the mag shouldn't be low, unless maybe you got a bad bag of salt. Just a thought, but if you haven't yet, I would test that mag!
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2017
  14. Fred

    147
    Johnston, IA
    Ratings:
    +37 / 0 / -0
    @xMermaidxx@xMermaidxx I haven’t been doing water changes but was planning on doing them to try and fix problem. But I do think my magnesium test kit is bad and need to go buy a new one. I am going to do a mag test on this new batch of water to see if I still get bad results from test kit and if so I’ll get new test kit. @xroads@xroads thanks I will give everything a vinegar bath.
     
  15. xMermaidxx

    65
    Altoona
    Ratings:
    +19 / 0 / -0
    @Fred@Fred okay, sounds good. just always remember about that magnesium in the future. if your calcium and alkalinity start swinging around too much, look at magnesium as the first culprit. if it's out of whack, everything else will be as well.
     
  16. Fred

    147
    Johnston, IA
    Ratings:
    +37 / 0 / -0
    @xMermaidxx@xMermaidxx thanks. I will for sure. I’ve been suspect of mag test for awhile but just have never went to get new one so if it ends up being even part of the problem then I will be mad at myself.
     
  17. blackx-runner Administrator Website Team Leadership Team

    Cedar Rapids, IA
    Ratings:
    +738 / 5 / -0
    This is what immediately came to mind when I read the amounts he was dosing and what was in the tank.
    @Fred@Fred How were you dosing? What specifically did you use for each portion of the 2 part? Did you split up the doses, what time of day did you dose? What was happening with your pH because of the dosing?
    I would also suggest to stop dosing for the time being, going back to nominal water changes, and get things stable again before attempting anything with dosing again. As mentioned Mg needs to also be looked at for an overall balance if/when you try two part again.
    From the sounds of the tank the kalk in your ato should keep up with the demand until you get some more corals packed in there.
     
  18. Fred

    147
    Johnston, IA
    Ratings:
    +37 / 0 / -0
    @blackx-runner@blackx-runner jeboa dp4 doser
    Calcium 30ml @ 10x a day
    6pm-8:30pm-12:00am-2:30am-5:00am-7:30am-10:00am-12:30pm-3:00pm-5:30pm
    Alkalinity 30ml @10x a day
    6:30pm-9:00pm-11:30pm-2:00am-4:30am-7:00am-9:30am-12:00pm-2:30pm-5:00pm
    Ph was 7.98-8.03 through out day and night.
    Brs 2 part
    But I don’t start off that much I just kept increasing it until my calcium and alk stayed at a constant number when testing but when I test mag it always read high like 1590-1600 but old tank read same with different salt but never had problems so don’t change mag test kit but now looking back obviously I should have. Also didn’t test new batches of water for changes either which obviously I should have before adding to tank but will now and will get a new mag test kit to see if my old one is indeed bad.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2017
  19. blackx-runner Administrator Website Team Leadership Team

    Cedar Rapids, IA
    Ratings:
    +738 / 5 / -0
    What values were you shooting for for alk and Ca?

    What salt mix are you using?
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2017
  20. Fred

    147
    Johnston, IA
    Ratings:
    +37 / 0 / -0
    Goal 8.5-9 dkh
    Was getting 8.4-8.8
    Goal 440 calcium
    Was getting 409-437
    But I felt like it wasn’t right that I was dosing so much with such little coral stock but my first test before I started dosing I felt like my alk was low so I started dosing more of that than calcium and just fell down slippery slope. I kept just trying to research on what was going wrong instead of just actually asking someone for advice. I had my 20 gallon up for 2 years without issue but also only used kalk in ato and only had soft coral and a few lps so when I upgraded tank and bought all this new equipment I thought I was ready for harder corals and was thinking with dosing I could get away with less water changes. Water changes on the 20 was easy but was trying to get away with less maintenance on the bigger tank but seems like I was moving faster than my tank was growing and learned a good lesson. First test before dosing 7.5 dkh and 450 for calcium
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2017

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