iowa city Posts/Points: 754/1012
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| 08/26/2012 10:18 PM |
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I have been fighting what's pretty clearly ICH in my powder brown for a while. He got it when he came to the tank and was stressed. THen he seemed to fight it off. Then he got it again and I have been doing everything I can find (as documented in some places here) to try to help him.
So tonight I posted some pics here and on RC and the response I've been getting over there are basically: "GET ALL YOUR FISH OUT OF THE TANK OR THEY WILL ALL DIE."
So now I'm scared. The PBT is the only one showing signs. I love these fish and want to do what I can for them. But I don't have the funds or space for a QT big enough for these fish.
I now feel like I really need some help to make sure they do't all die, so I'm asking, fellow club members, is the situation as dire as the RC folks are making it out to be? What can I do? Is it appropritae to ask to borrow a tank for a QT situation? Do I need to do that? I know I do if I want to get rid of the ICH parasite for good, but many fish are resistant to it and to this point, after a few weeks, most of my others seem to be as the PBT struggles.
I guess what I'm saying is I'm reaching out to the club for help one way or the other. I feel pretty desperate right now. |
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ames Posts/Points: 236/276
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| 08/26/2012 11:07 PM |
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transfer method Quarantine, copper treatment, fallow tank method are the only ways to shake it.
I have used quarantining and fallow tank method.
I Make sure the fish is eating first.Then, I use the quarantine tank transfer method with ALL new fish (before they go into the community/display tank. Tank transfer method is based around Ich's life cycle (crypt).
Every third day, i put the fish in a new, sterile tank. And i do this a minimum of three times; and more if i see that there is "ich". Each tank transfer has to be completed NO LATER than three days, or you HAVE TO start over. About the second transfer the fish look better, but don't stop then, i will transfer up to four or more times. Then if you have any doubt that the fish may have it yet, leave it in the quarantine tank for a couple weeks, and if Ich doesn't show up, then you know you are safe(r). otherwise, do it again and be very dilligent about cleanliness.
here are a couple of links that discuss it further:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/s...?t=1996525
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2182483
But keep in mind, if you do a tank transfer method, you can't put the fish back into the display tank for 8 to 10 weeks. And all of the fish have to go through quarantine. That way the Ich eggs/larvae/adults have all seen a full cycle of life without a host and the inability to continue their life cycles. This allows the tank to go fallow. Also, you 'can not use the tank water as your quarantine source water since it is infected. any corals and inverts will be fine in the display tank in the meantime.
I use three different 10 gallon tanks. I have separate HOB filters, heaters, air pump stones, and power heads for each. No rock, no sand. I use large PVC T's and fittings for hiding places. I set up the tank a day ahead of time so it is ready the following. I even use the ten gallon tanks for smaller tangs. But if the fish has any size to them, i use 29 gallon tanks. multiple fish can be done at the same time, in the same tank. Then, i bleach the tank after it's three day use.
Understanding the enemy is key! I have lost too many fish to Ich myself, and this seems to be working like a charm. And i like the science behind why this works, and not just because i wrote this on the internet or reef central. |
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Private Posts/Points: 24/32
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| 08/26/2012 11:34 PM |
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I don't think it's necessary to move/treat all of your fish, and it may even be counterproductive to stress them if they're not showing any symptoms. My vote is move the pbt to a quaratine/hospital tank and keep him well fed, and if it looks like you're losing treat him with copper or hypo. |
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Iowa City Posts/Points: 2321/2681
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| 08/27/2012 12:05 AM |
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pbt's are very suceptable to this condition. The other fish will not acquire it unless you leave him in there and he gets worse. But the stress of moving him might be too much for a newly acquired pbt. He might not make it. I highly suggest using at least a 55 gallon tank to quarantine. You can get them real cheap on craigslist. The physical constraints of smaller tanks seems to stress them out more and just ends up killing them. |
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| Andy Long 2013 Club President
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“Our ability to perceive quality in nature begins, as in art, with the pretty. It expands through successive stages of the beautiful to values as yet uncaptured by language.” -Aldo Leopold |
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cedar rapids Posts/Points: 997/1357
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| 08/27/2012 12:35 AM |
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Ive got a NICE 55 and stand. Just throw it in the basement fill with saltwater add movement and treat |
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| Do what you can with what you have! I love my little 5 gallons of my own ocean! |
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Moline Posts/Points: 150/172
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| 08/27/2012 1:35 AM |
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No Offense but this is the third thread on this matter that you've posted. People in this forum and I'm sure in the RC forum have stated the ways to rid your system of Ich, you have stated that you know all about life cycle of Cryptocaryon Irritans from another thread, but you keep asking the same question over and over of how to get rid of it. Also you have stated in your other threads that a QT/Hospital tank is out of the question due to funding or whatever else. No offense at this point in time you either deal with your Ich problem the correct way or you just live with the consequences. Ultimately, there's 2 choices, the decision is yours to make, but asking the same questions over and over in this forum and others is beating the proverbial dead horse.
Quarantine, Copper, Tank Transfer Method, and leave your DT FALLOW. |
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| I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, and insanity to anyone, but it WORKS for me.
Hunter S. Thompson |
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iowa city Posts/Points: 754/1012
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| 08/27/2012 7:48 AM |
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Thanks for all the help, folks. I'll do what I can.
Moneypit: I guess I took the club aspect of this forum too seriously. It was my intention to create different posts on individual topics centering around this general subject. Sorry to have bothered you and anyone else who was put out. |
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La Porte City Posts/Points: 5496/6890
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Moline Posts/Points: 150/172
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| 08/27/2012 9:41 AM |
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Posted By thejtl on 08/27/2012 07:48 AM
Thanks for all the help, folks. I'll do what I can.
Moneypit: I guess I took the club aspect of this forum too seriously. It was my intention to create different posts on individual topics centering around this general subject. Sorry to have bothered you and anyone else who was put out.
Paitence is a virtue in this hobby. |
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| I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, and insanity to anyone, but it WORKS for me.
Hunter S. Thompson |
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Sioux City Posts/Points: 171/185
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| 08/27/2012 9:46 AM |
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I have a 40 gallon I would lend (for hypo only, no copper) in a situation like this, but I am in Sioux City. Sorry. |
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mount pleasant Posts/Points: 892/1204
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| 08/27/2012 9:52 AM |
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If you really want to treat the PB then need to invest in a QT tank. EVERYONE needs to invest in a QT tank. Instead of investing in future fish save your money and make your next purchase be a QT setup.
If you had this you could QT your fish BEFORE you add them to your tank.
I have a PB right now that shows signs of ich on occassion (not as bad as yours is showing). He is the only fish that has it. One of these days I am going to catch him and QT him but I have not done so because he keeps it in check and none of my other fish have it.
The way I see it is you have three choices:
1. Do nothing and hope for the best.
2. QT the PB, treat for ich, return to tank in six weeks.
3. QT everyone and let your tank run fallow.
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| 240 gallon bare bottom, AI Vega LED lights, 75 gallon sump, Octo Pro 300 skimmer, calc reactor, GFO/Carbon, nitrate reactor, ozone, APEX, 10000gph of flow, sps, lps, zoas, fish. |
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La Porte City Posts/Points: 5496/6890
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| 08/27/2012 9:53 AM |
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I saw the pic of your powder in your other post of pics. He is pretty bad, I really doubt if he is going to make it.
Either way, you should take action sooner rather then later.
At this point, you dont have too many corals it looks like. I would look at getting them out, and treat the whole tank. No copper if you are going to put corals back in, so Hypo may be your best bet.
Read my other post about ich, so you have a good understanding of what you are fighting & can make an informed decision. |
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Private Posts/Points: 1938/2294
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| 08/27/2012 10:18 AM |
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Posted By mcclandy on 08/26/2012 11:07 PM
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/s...?t=1996525
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2182483
Link was broken...
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1996525 |
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| - Bud - AKA "Floyd R Turbo". I maintain a 144 Reef, a 125 FOWLR and a 225 FOWLR for customers. Need a professional grade Algae Scrubber? Custom Acrylic Fabrication needs? Contact me via PM. See my projects in the Commercial Members & Club Sponsors forum. |
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Private Posts/Points: 1938/2294
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| 08/27/2012 10:25 AM |
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Post #43 in the fixed link removes your cost. Do the tank transfer method in a 5g bucket with a heater and an airline/airstone dropped in. Cost is minimal. |
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| - Bud - AKA "Floyd R Turbo". I maintain a 144 Reef, a 125 FOWLR and a 225 FOWLR for customers. Need a professional grade Algae Scrubber? Custom Acrylic Fabrication needs? Contact me via PM. See my projects in the Commercial Members & Club Sponsors forum. |
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La Porte City Posts/Points: 5496/6890
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| 08/27/2012 10:32 AM |
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Wow, 5 gallon is pretty small, especially for a tang. 16 gallon muck tubs are not that much more expensive & would at least let it move around some. |
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iowa city Posts/Points: 754/1012
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| 08/27/2012 10:58 AM |
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So xroads, yes, it wouldn't be too hard to get my corals out as many are still in the frag stage. I've reread your thread and just have one question: If I go the route of hypo treating the whole tank (salinity @ .019, right?) will that help the other fish stay healthy? My inclination is to want to get the one effected fish out to hopefully safeguard the others.
Also, what would be the best method for reach that salinty goal?
Thanks all. |
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| The Fourteenth Colony: a novel with music
http://www.sadironpress.com |
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La Porte City Posts/Points: 5496/6890
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| 08/27/2012 11:05 AM |
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it is 1.009.
You will have to slowly add RO water and take out saltwater. You can go down fairly quick, but up on .002 a day. You need a refractometer to make sure you are exact!
Remember it will kill anything that is not a fish. So any coral, shrimp, crabs, etc. You will have to find a temporary home for them.
And yes, even though the other fish are not showing signs of ich like the powder is, they are more then likely carrying it. So if you take the powder out, cure it up. It will be reinfected when you put it back in.
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iowa city Posts/Points: 754/1012
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| 08/27/2012 11:42 AM |
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Ah. Yeah. Man this is a tough choice. I know there's no way I'm catching my cleaner shrimp in a my 180. I haven't seen my emerald crab in quite a while. A lot of my snails hang under the rock or the sand until nightfall. Potentailly that's a lot of loss. I have to think about this in terms of $$ too, right? HOB filter and QT tank, maybe $50, right? (Definitely no room for a 55) A $60 fish that you think probably won't make it anyway vs. a lot of distruption and potential invert loss. Not the biggest deal, but still all that stuff cost money. And the QT tank will be good for all future use.
I know it's not going to solve the ich in the tank, but perhaps QTing the one fish will give it the best chance for survival/protect the other (some musch more expensive) fish. This stinks. |
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| The Fourteenth Colony: a novel with music
http://www.sadironpress.com |
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La Porte City Posts/Points: 5496/6890
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| 08/27/2012 11:50 AM |
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Considering what you are saying.
I would offer the PBT free to anyone willing to try and save it.
Continue to monitor your other fish, feed food dosed with garlic
Do not add any more fish that are very susceptible to ich.
Save up and invest in a UV sterlizer |
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iowa city Posts/Points: 754/1012
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| 08/27/2012 12:12 PM |
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I'm willing to try to save the fish. I hope my post didn't come off that way.
Already feeding with garlic and Zoe-infused foods. |
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| The Fourteenth Colony: a novel with music
http://www.sadironpress.com |
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